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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Trying to put a number value on the cap difference.

I have never been a digital fan. All the tests so far are done on CD because I do not want to log hours on my cartridge. The two CD players I am using is a NAD (20 year old one) and a Linn Karik. (which I never thought was that great compared to vinyl)

Doing just the tweeter caps Duelund/Supreme about $400 both speakers. ($30 for Sonicaps) If it came down to a choice (of money on CD player or caps) the cap difference from Sonicap to Duelund/Supreme is at least 5x the difference from the two CD players. That is just doing the tweeter caps. I can not imagine what it will be when all is done!

It is just HUGE! In fact when the Duelund/Supreme was in it is the 1st time I have ever enjoyed digital. I only have the player for my wife and back ground music.

Money on caps (great caps) also is better money spent in the fact that all sources will be better.

I would like to hear some opinions on this but I think money on caps may be better money than on speaker wire, interconnects or anything I can think of???
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
After buying the Sonicaps a light went off in my head that it is the caps that made the Klipsch special, I always thought it was the horns.

Steen Duelund
"A passive network needs spacing, so use bottom and backside of the loudspeaker box for it — the bigger the better. Also do not expect this important part to be cheap. I personally use more money on the dividing network than on the rest of the loudspeaker".
stormen
30 posts
 
Volleyguy

"I would like to hear some opinions on this but I think money on caps may be better money than on speaker wire, interconnects or anything I can think of???"

Without a shadow of a doubt.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,490 posts
 
Still I feel using such costly parts on the poor old klipsch tweeters is a bit of a waist of funds. Replace it, use a good cap and be done. Trust me the tweeters are a very weak link and with what your spending on crossovers parts you could afford proper replacement tweeters. I disagree with money on caps is better than money spent elsewhere for if your loudspeakers where modern and of proper design changing the caps wouldnt make much diferance. Now your replacing parts that probly where out of spec since you dont have a mint stock klipsch to compare to your voicing these speaker to your own tastes room system keep this in mind. I wonder have you tested the old caps to see if they are realy out of spec? Also with loudspeakers transducer quality realy maters as does crossover, cabinet, finish, dampening etc. Its a total design if done right. I disagree with this statement [I think money on caps may be better money[spent] than on speaker wire, interconnects or anything I can think of] I would say treat your system like what it is a system not a colection of gear. Focusing on 1 aspect of a systems performance mostly leads to grief in the long term.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
My Linn speakers look very nice (like many other brands) but no doubt use cheap caps.

Steen Duelund (I am impressed with dedication to the hobby a throwback to the past)

"That is really what you get even from the expensive part of the market. No real innovations, none new ways, as if normal methods are the best - but designs and finish are very impressive. Sadly this is for the eyes not for the ears".

"It seems difficult to build loudspeakers, which are more than 2-way, if you search the market. What has been gained, by these simple 2-ways constructions concerning recreation of a convincingly holographic picture of sound is lost, when more ways are chosen. Just consider how much energy has been put into the two way systems, to make them full range. None of them reaches the goal".

"In theory more ways should lead to better results, but practise has shown it otherwise. Normal filters and components are insufficient".

JohnK will like this quote. (Steen seems to be a horn guy)

"With a well-constructed horn and a single loudspeaker, much can be achieved concerning experience, but full range and relaxing to listen to, it will never be. But they can be very spellbinding".

I commonly hear that freq cutoffs should be abrubt from one driver to the other and Steen feels exact opposite.

"In the literature you’ll find "the perfect filter" described as having linear response until a sudden abrupt cut-off. That is probably correct concerning telecommunication but it can’t be more wrong with loudspeakers. There the cut-off must happen in a very gentle manner, so let us see, how this can be achieved".

Steen on caps (I feel somewhat vindicated now saying that the older caps were better. The Klipsch vintage caps when newer would kick the crap out of the cheaper plastic caps. The vintage caps simply no plastic and wayyyyy bigger. That being said the Duelund with no plastic is better than the vintage ever were. Anyone ever try the old Mica caps?)
I also feel somewhat vindicated about comments about the Sonicaps being just too small to do the job.

"From the great variety of types - stick to stack foils or variations on that theme if you can find them without plastics. The good old Micas works wonderfully well but they are far too expensive for greater values. Go for older types following the simple rule that bigger is better. A good sounding construction will be introduced from Jensen Capacitor in the near future". (An artificial stack foil, which regrettably only can be manufactured by hand for now.)

Interesting on sound our brain uses 4 senses? Wow did not know that?

"The brain in reality uses four of its senses by an acoustical event: hearing, sight, somatic tough for lower frequencies and even the sense of smell simultaneously.

Reproduction of only sound in a room creates problems for the brains treatment of sound — missing two stimuli, as I’ll rule out the smell".

Steen on loudspeaker cost relative to system.

"The price of the loudspeaker should mirror the price of the rest of your gear as almost equal. The reason is simple — the more quality gained from the electronic parts the more handwork must be invested in the mechanic/acoustical unit. A good loudspeaker has no easy way despite the manufacturer’s advertising of "The simpler- the better". It only for them is better and of course easier and cheaper".

That one is interesting for me as my Klipsch with cheap CD player (vintage Fisher tube amp) outperforms the expensive Linn gear with the cheaper (slightly) Linn speakers. Linn has always said source is the most important and Steen takes issue with that, saying 50% of the system cost should be in the speakers and I tend (even as a Linn fan) agree with Steen.
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