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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK
I would have agreed on the tweeters until the Duelund's went in.

Bob Crites says he has tested thousands of caps this age and all were out of spec. I have not tested mine but did hear them go bad a couple of years ago.

I am not focusing on one aspect just trying to bring it back to at least OEM. According to Steen Duleund 50% of the cost of the speaker should be in the dividing network. Well Khorns cost almost $4k in 1980. So in theory $2k of the retail should be in the crossover network. (1980 dollars)

I can assure you John that fronting even a vintage Klipsch tweeter with 2 $7 caps is crazy! Fronting the speakers with two $30 is much better and a $30 Mundorf and a $140 Duelund is a even bigger jump.

I am treating the system as a system that is why I made sure the new caps had to be at least as good as old ones. I am not trying to create a weak link with cheap caps.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I forgot to put volume size of the vintage caps and Duelund

Vintage is
53mm length 32 width 50mm high (at least 40mm before rounding)

for a total volume of 84,800mm (somewhat less as cans are rounded)

They are between 64,000cubic mm and 84,800 cubic mm say 75,000. (app)

The Duelund's are
90mm long 45mm wide 9mm high
36,450 cubic mm.
stormen
30 posts
 
Volleyguy

"Steen Duelund (I am impressed with dedication to the hobby a throwback to the past)"

He was quite an enigmatic character on the Danish diy scene.

You'll find some more info here:

http://www.gryphon-audio.dk/files/duelund/duelund.html
www.steenduelund.dk
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Stormen I will check that out as well.

The last one I could only understand his writing the math I do not have a clue!

I did find interesting his 50% of the system speakers because he thinks they are the weak link and within the speaker 50% in the dividing network. So if one had a 10k system (which is not hard today at all!) a full $2500 should be in the speaker crossover!

To me that sounds like a lot of dough in the crossover. I bet most are nowhere near that. But like Steen says people like shining cabinets with fantastic finish on them. You don't see crossovers you only hear them.

I had a buddy just e-mail today who had his phono stage sent back to Germany to install Mundorf Silver/Gold/Oil and you would think he had gone to heaven! He had Supreme's. So caps are huge.

JohnK and I are in complete agreement about not going overboard in one area of a system. What we are off a little on is how much you have to spend to do it. I only started out to be as good as (worn out) OEM or better and that Duelund/Supreme is the point where I am not missing the old caps in anyway.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,490 posts
 
I agree loudspeakers are the most important part of the system. As far as 50% cash for crossover 50% rest is just crazy. If I followed this 50% rule my loudspeakers would be the worse off for it. A crossover can not make a poor transducer into a great 1. Cabinet transducers and crossovers must all be designed to be a whole. Using crazy costly parts in crossovers is not the best way. Your getting the sound you want but your results are not of as of much use to others as you think. Steens wrong about loudspeaker design sure I use mostly 1st order gental slopes but I have use for stepper cut offs just depends on designs end goal no one way to build a loudspeaker. Sure its harder to design multiway loudspeakers but 3-4 -5 ways can be needed depending on design goals. I also disagree with the horn quote[With a well-constructed horn and a single loudspeaker, much can be achieved concerning experience, but full range and relaxing to listen to, it will never be. But they can be very spellbinding] I have designed constructed full range single driver loudspeakers also full range horn systems these loudspeakers are definatly relaxing to listen too. Well maybe the cap manufacters just dont want you to buy or DIY a loudspeaker without crossovers.
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