Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil


I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
Sorry guys late and off to bed.
I will answer comments tomorrow.

All I was saying is the Mundorf is much bigger has much more dynamics than Sonicap and is well worth the money difference. (for this kind of application in my opinion)
from Mundorf

"Special induction-free winding technology: Two capacitor windings are interleaved so that their inductances effectively cancel each other out. These two windings are connected in series. This means that it takes two 2µF windings to make a single 1µF MCap-Supreme capacitor - the same amount that it would take to produce a full 4µF of capacity using conventional technology"!

I wish I heard that from former Klipsch owners. I am no cap expert but have owned these speakers for 30 years so I do know what they sound like and can say a Sonicap is a for sure downgrade from original. (if I would have read that from a 30 year owner who has nothing to sell)

When I started this (I was and still am no cap expert or claim to be) I was told by so much I read (on the net) it would be easy to replace the vintage caps as they were not very good compared to modern caps. I have found this simply to NOT be true. Yes there are better caps out today. (Duelund for sure) I'll I am saying is if Sonicap is the best bang for the buck cap one might start to think about spending more than you think.

I hope one reads this in the future and says to themselves Ok $3500 (for last pair of Khorns same year on ebay selling price) that it might cost them more than they think to bring the speakers back to spec.

A quote from Steen Duelund
"From the great variety of types - stick to stack foils or variations on that theme if you can find them without plastics. The good old Micas works wonderfully well but they are far too expensive for greater values. Go for older types following the simple rule that bigger is better. A good sounding construction will be introduced from Jensen Capacitor in the near future". (An artificial stack foil, which regrettably only can be manufactured by hand for now.)

Steen likes caps "without plastics". (can't argue there) Older type caps. (can't argue there) Bigger is better. (can't argue there)

I am just saying I think the man is/was on to something and something BIG! (no plastic may be the key!)

Tony Gee said how his caps made things sound so real and super natural.
Rauliruegas,

That may be so, but neither the Duelund VSFs in question or the Mundorfs are paper in oils, so I don't understand why that is brought up.
Halcro

Yes, I use a Duelund 10.37 uF for example. I also value highly that you can get the exact value you need in one cap, inductor or resistor.
Duelund Coherent Audio
to me

show details 2:16 PM (19 hours ago)


Reply


Volleyguy

I think the reason is that most air cores are made in the same way, quickly wound and done. However, the Duelunds are made in the same vein as their caps with a wet oil dielectricum which they are impregnated with under high pressure for several days. Supposedly this reduces unwant resonances in the inductor, which is very beneficial to the sound quality.

As I've said, I never use anything else, but the price difference is of course large compared to the Alpha Core.

The Duelunds are only made by Jensen insofar, that Duelund has access to the Jensen machinery (They are located in the same building) , otherwise they are as night and day especially soundwise, I own both types. The english Audio Notes are no longer made by Jensen, but I believe Kondo Audio Note (Japan) continues to use Jensen. Furthermore, they are no longer paper in oil, but use a plastic material (mylar). I firmly believe in the paper approach, but again each to his own, and Audio Note UK probably had their reasons.
I e-mailed Duelund about the connection to Jensen and copy/pasted some of their info into my reply. Now it suddenly looks at if, they made the whole reply?

Sorry for any confusion.