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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Friend stopped by and had a listen.

He owns a set of Klipsch Heresy I's and plays guitar as well. (but not big into audio)

First 10 minutes he liked the vintage caps. He liked the "fuller sound". It was a sound he was used to. He has heard these speakers for more than 25 years. At first he did not know what to make of the changes. He kept saying you can pick out every instrument. (new caps)

After 30 minutes and getting acustomed he said you can pick out the whole orchestra. He said classical music lovers would go nuts. (but was still in the vintage camp for rock)

After about an hour he just kept shaking his head and saying I can not believe caps can do that! I just can not believe it!

He said making the motion of wrapping a peice of paper in to a ball and throwing it. (that is what the vintage sound like just krinkle it all up and through like garbage.

He is more excited than I am about the mid cap. He figures he will pick up everything from his guitar favourites.

He said vintage caps instruments never sounded like the actual instrument. At first he did like the pleasing tones of the vintage caps and that sound was always there even if you had no idea what is was coming from.

He also said if that was just the tweeter caps the speakers would be unrecognisable from original once the midcaps went in.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
After the friend left it made me start to think about speakers.

After I had installed the Sonicaps I was shocked at how the Klipcsh sounded like every other speaker? Whatever I had come to know after all these years was changed by caps. I did not understand how that could be?

When the friend said when he first heard them tonight he said he liked the vintage caps better. It was what he was used to (as he has Heresy's) and the sound was so different to him it confused him.

Where is the bass he said? (typical comment of low to mid-fi listeners view bass as a thump not some instrument) After awhile he said there is bass but only when someone is playing a bass and when they are not it is done. In fact he said there is only the sound of the instrument or nothing.

He said the vintage caps were like listening to a guitar amp and hitting the distortion pedal. Sometimes some pleasing tones but nothing was right. (full and distorted)

At first he thought the Duelund's sounded like a studio (recording) and the vintage were like "live". Near the end of the hour his frustration grew with the vintage.

The last half hour he just sat there shaking his head. He said I have heard the song all my life yet never heard it. He said that is just "phenomenal".
sherod
1,681 posts
 
It looks like your friend might have to put some Duelands in his Heresy speakers. You've just turned your friend into an audiophile. I hope he has an understanding wife when he starts explaining why he has to buy all these new things for his system. (O:
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sherod

I am going over to his house for visit. He left here last night shaking his head talking about going home and listening to some of his albums.

Wife was up today at 8am and had the music cranked! That has happened NEVER in 15 years together.

More normal was when she came home she would say turn that down. Man that was frustrating. The only time I could have it loud was when she wasn't home or was drinking!

Here is a possible side benefit guys and I am sure many of you have similiar wives. I think women hear different. "A Day in the Life" Beatles (personal Beatles fav) In the car right when it gets going she would always turn it down. Man did that piss me off! Like turning down art. (caused more than one arguement) To me a masterpiece to her just a pile of noise at the end. I think men we hear what the guy was trying to do and women hear what it is and in a car stereo it is not good!

So to me it is worth $1500 on parts if she stops bugging me to turn it down!

Kind of just kidding but for 12 years she has bugged me to get rid of those ugly Klipsch. When I got the attractive Linn she cared more about getting rid of the Klipsch.

Just today she said why don't you get rid of the Linn speakers. No more bugging me about getting rid of the Klipsch. (that's worth something too)

So the moral is you can keep ugly speakers as long as the wife likes the sound! (and they are not in the living room)
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,490 posts
 
My wife was a bit put off by my oris 150 converging horn array with 8 oris 150 horns and dual upsized imperal bass horns with 4 -18in woofers. This system end to end touching no space between was 19ft wide. My wife hated the size but after a week she used them daily. When I sold them to build other designs. She was upset;) Now she only listens when I have a horn SET system shes doesnt know this but I do...When I use SS shes just doesnt use them. My sons picky if I change for the better he will sit centered listening for quite awhile. If its not up to snuff he says turn it down daddy, no music. Hes 8 and autistic so verbal but a bit behind. He does have a musical photographic memmory, knows 100s of songs even keeps beat and time between verse. He can drum very well without any teaching. Built his 1st loudspeaker design unaided at 4. All I did was solder wire to driver. He picked drivers, cabinet [a tube], dampening, port size ,etc. And all was right. Ive had 2 friends build copys but with a veneered tube. I was working on a customer project he was without my knowledge working on my bench, used tubes from shrink wrap both same size. Still have 1 he trashed the other. I do trust his ears for I have tested system after he complains and have measured problems.
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