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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Matrix All clear
I am leaning to the new SET as well. Maybe I just had a fluke Fisher. You are right though the other ones have not been that great. I do though think the vintage can be very good amps. As Arthur says amps just have not come that far in 40 years and anyone who says they have is trying to sell you something. Now I am not a vintage person as other than these old speakers none of my gear was vintage.

The fire/smoke of the output transformer does scare one for sure on vintage. One thing for sure I agree on not all vintage is equal and you guys may be right to spend on newer amp. I am going to try one re-cap (electrolytics) on a Fisher and if no good dump most of them.

I really have had enough of fixing gear. If I had the money maybe one of those new $40k horn systems would be the way to go. But they are out of my league.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Gone through 120+ pieces of vinyl to be traded in.

The noise is not from the vintage amp these caps let you hear any defect in the vinyl. Excellent vinyl sounds amazing. It is not a negative of these caps as they are so precise you know when (without a doubt) your vinyl is worn.

Last year I went through my vinyl as best the system I had then could a sort out worn stuff. I can now hear so much more it is incredible. There was more wear than I had any idea of. It comes across a noisy and stands out.

Sonic differences from CAST to VSF. (and they are MUCH bigger than I thought)(but for some odd reason they are much bigger on vinyl than CD?)

My turntable still sounds wayyyyyyy better then (my) CD player that was just a wish for great digital. The Duelund's just need great vinyl. (or maybe a great digital source)

VSF noisy and washed out in camparison to CAST. VSF almost sound broken in comparison. CAST have much better texture and sort things out much better.

CAST will tilt the sound downward which is a good thing for me as I have bass shy horns. They do this by the huge reduction in noise. CAST is much easier to track bass lines.

VSF might have one slight upside. The electricity in the room is bigger on VSF. I guess this could be caused by the reduction in noise with the CAST. CAST might be slightly tight.

That is very slight and if I could do it all again I would just get the CAST for the midrange and Tweeters.

I am hoping with crossoved fingers that one CAST and one VSF gives me most of the difference in both speakers or maybe even gives a little of the VSF electricity and the stunning CAST low resonance.

Some audio nuts are organizing a get together. I was inivited to the first one but next time they are going to have a tube based theme which I will go and put the speakers to the test of others. I also want to hear a selection of SET amps and how they compare to the vintage. (refurbished or course)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Stormen any experience in mixing VSF and CAST?

Thanks
wavetrader
260 posts
 
You might find this interesting....Kevin Hayes being interviewed in Stereophile had this comment on the Fisher....

"I've been an audiophile since before I knew what the word meant, going back to the mid-'70s. I had an epiphany when I first heard a piece of old tubed gear, a Fisher X101, that simply blew away a highly touted receiver that I happened to own. It was a 25W integrated amplifier, using 7591s on the output, and except for sustained organ-pedal notes, it was far better than what I had at that time."

Now I can really relate to what you have experienced with the Ultra low noice caps...I have the same expience with my SS electronics using black gate caps. I now use the BG preamp with the rest of my system. I continue to upgrade all my components except for my Vac's....but will do eventualy.

I am trying to get my system ready for a assualt on my speakers....I have upgraded all my IC's,PC's and speaker cable.....the backgound is the blackest I have heard my system sound....Everything litterly pops out and there is no longer any imbalance in the sound....plus my CD's sound remarkable. On the Chinatown soundtrack even "I can't get started with you" sounds great.

I continue to follow your saga....To recommend a amp the 300B Vac's are certainly dead quiet and highly linear. The only downside if there is such...tubing these are expensive but the used market seems to reflect this in the pricing....good luck.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Wavetrader I am very glad to hear that about the Black gates. I am going to do the re-capping the Fisher. That Stereophile article compared the Fisher against a $42k amp as well. The Fisher was not better but I think shocked even Stereophile that really amps have not come that far.

I was schooled when the guy showed up to buy the Klipsch with old Fisher. I kind of chuckled at first when I seen it. An hour later I was humbled and big time!

Made an app. to sell the used vinyl. I think close to $1k worth of store credit. My vinyl that I am getting rid of will be the best they have almost to a piece. Vinyl of course is better than digital but digital is better than worn vinyl.

One thing I did notice on the vinyl purge was how poorly mid '70's onward vinyl stood up. I know they changed something in the vinyl to make it softer. My older Sinatra, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong etc stands up wayyyy better overall.

Vinyl quality itself went down after the first oil crisis. (early '70's) Older recordings on Columbia's top label or Decca or Reprise sound amazing and even the ones I did not keep were not so much from wear but noise. Newer records (meaning mostly mid '70 and '80's) are just worn out.

To me it is not surprising (now) that the Fisher stands up. The '60's recordings were just astonishing as well. Arthur talks about this in his site as well. I find his site to be very good and now follow it much more closely. I remember not seeing my amp (Linn Klout) on his list and thinking it must be that he had just not heard it. He had all these old '60's antique amps but not mine? Why not? Now I know why! It is just not that good.
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