2. amps-preamps
  3. 1014962180

Which direction would you go?

I have spent the last ten years living with a system that is to my ears unlistenable. I was sucked in by the stereophile recommended components list, and bought based on cost and ratings, rather than common sense and proper auditions. I ended up with the following: B&W 802 Matrix II's, a Threshold S350e amp, a Krell KBL preamp, and a front end comprised of a Theta pro Gen II and Data Mk II. As you might well imagine, I have endured bright, harsh sound in three different homes over the years. I tried room tunes (any buyers?) all manner of cables (I presently own Cardas Cross bi-wire) a CJ premier 10 pre-amp (not enough of a difference to justify the switch) and Cal audio front end. In frustration, I have sold the Krell, and the Threshold, and have active listings for the B&W and Cardas, and plans to sell the Theta as soon as possible. I listen mostly to small scale instrumental and female vocals from various genres. I enjoy Linda Ronstadt, Sara K, Rickie Lee Jones, Allison Krauss, Annie Lennox, Dixie Chicks, Etta James, Karen Carpenter, Joe Sample, Miles, Ronnie Earl, Govi, Willie and Lobo, Lyle Lovett, James Taylor, and so much more. I have front row center seats for the NY Philharmonic for the last fifteen years and have seen more concerts than I could name. I was set on the idea of downsizing to a home theater setup, Integra receiver and DVD/CD with Definitive Technology pro 100 speaker system or maybe the NHT Super Series SB3. They seem to have OK sound on both music and movies, but I wonder if the trade-off is too great since 98% of the time I will be listening to music with only an occasional music video or movie. I am quite certain I have never heard my B&W's perform the way they should, but am not certain I wish to invest more money chasing the Holy Grail. (Also tried Bryston 4B). I have reviewed threads here and contemplated trying the Classe gear. I have also thought about selling the B&W's and buying a speaker with a silk dome tweeter or a propensity toward warmth. (Mission, Soliloquy, JM Labs, Vandersteen) My room is a LIVING room and dining room L shape, (20 x13 living attached to 14 x12 dining) and it is lively with 11' acoustical ceiling. In any event, I would like to avail myself of the multi-channel options while focusing on two channel performance. I keep my speakers on the long wall and listen near-field. I do not believe electrostats are an option for me due to size, placement, and WAF issues. Please let me know your thoughts, and be gentle as this is my first post here on Agon.
mike7142
brulee
564 posts
 
Pops has a great system. I don't remember what Thiels he owns. I heard in all places, a dealers showroom the Theils 3.something with all Classe equipment except for an Audio Aero CDP that the person brought along to audition the Thiels. I was very impressed. Accurate yet very musical and involving. If a warmer sound is more to your liking, try Vanderseen 3s. Keep looking. There are a lot of good speakers in your price range. You have just been told about 3 of them. If you should get 10 more responses, you will probably get 10 different opinions.
Best in your quest for the best in your budget.
sean
6,229 posts
 
You mention trying other amp / preamp combo's, different digital front ends, tons of different cables, etc... so that kind of rules those out as the source of "bleeding ear syndrome". As such, you are left with your speakers as the logical source of your problems. Regardless of all of the other combo's that you tried, it was the one mainstay in the system ( other than the brightness ).

While you might be able to find a combo of gear that will tame the characteristics about them that you don't like, my guess is that you would end up in the same situation that you are already in. That is, IF you build a new system around them. This is not to say that B&W's are bright or "bad" speakers, only that they are not to your personal taste.

I would look at the size of your room, the volume levels and tonal balance that you want to achieve and then look at speakers with those factors in mind. Once you've found something that interests you, you'll know about how much power you'll need to look for and can start working backwards from there.

This is not to say that i think that the speakers are more important than all of the other links in the chain, but they can be the most influential. I say this based on various power demands, how they load and react with the room, dispersion characteristics, etc.. All of other products simply process and pass along what electrical signal is already there. Speakers convert that electrical signal to a mechanical signal and as such, have twice as many variables to deal with.

I would look for something that was relatively efficient ( 89+ db's or so) a relatively easy ( non-reactive ) load to drive, medium to high impedance ( 6 - 10 ohms ) and something that will work ( in terms of placement and your listening position ) within your requirements. This will make amplifier selection quite a bit easier and allow you to concentrate on a high quality source and minimizing losses in the preamp.

Just a thought and hope you don't find it out of line. Sean
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celtic66
990 posts
 
Mike,

Excellent taste in artists with mostly great recordings.

Let's assume the B&Ws go. Ground up for $5,000.
YBA CD player and integrated combined with your choice of ATC passive monitors or Totem floor standers. By the time you properly do stands (if needed), interconnects (LAT International, cheap but very good) and Analysis Plus
Oval 9s you will be there with WAF to spare. Simple to use utilizing a small amount of real estate, clean and VERY musical.

Don't let the reviewers run your life.
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Mike, based on your room description, it sounds like may have some serious room acoustic issues causing the sound to be much more bright and alive than it should be.

I would address the room first because some to most of the equipment you list is already on the dark/warm side of life.

Room acoustics good or bad can affect the sound of your system by up to 80%. Look for thick carpeting and padding, beams in the ceiling, bookcases with lots of books, perhaps closing off the room with the equipment with drywall/paneling and a solid 6 panel wood door.

I would also recommend staying away from the multi-channel home theater setup. At least for now. If you become satisfied with the 2-channel setup, then you automatically will have a very nice HT sound as well without stepping down in gear.

-John
rlb61
362 posts
 
Sounds to me like the problem is the amp/pre-amp combo. From my experience, Krell and Threshold components are very bright and "in your face." Mated with the B&Ws, I can see where your ears would be ringing, despite use of the Cardas Cross. Of course, you may have "room" issues, but in my experience such concerns are ususally not THE critical factor.

I'd get rid of the amp/preamp and start over. I have N804s and use a Musical Fidelity A3cr preamp/Musical Fidelity A300cr power amp (225 wpc). The MF stuff is extremely neutral and the choke regulation feature virtually eliminates all grain/distortion. There is simply no fatigue when listening to my system.

The B&Ws are EXTREMELY system dependent and I think you're missing the right synergy. When mated with the right components, the Matrix 802s can really sing, so I think it'd be a waste of great speakers to change. Your front end and cables look good.
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