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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
jtinn, maybe you're right, I certainly can't dispute that but I am certainly open to showing everyone what a Berning is capable of, against any amp.
fatparrot
1,314 posts
 
Jtinn, the Atma-sphere amps are all OTL's. Your statement seems to indicate that they are not ("The Lamm's and Atma-sphere are next if more power or a transformer is needed.") I'm sure that this was just a syntax error in your post, since you are very well versed; I just wanted to set the record straight.
thorty40
149 posts
 
A friendly comparison with a non 5 year old Berning (which has caps that may have problems from sitting around too long) with properly set feedback and the Tenors or Atmasphere amplifers would be an interesting bout. Price here is not an issue, as I feel all are in the same league. Simply place one amp (or amps) directly next to the other, performance vs. performance with no reservations in regards to price or reputation, status ect......
Maybe we should try this at a CES next year, I think it would be alot of fun and interesting at the same time. All flavors will be desireable I feel, all appealing to different people in different ways.
Back and forth with this ones better, that ones better, nobody will ever rest on the matter. Some have stated the Berning is not in the League with the Tenors or the Atmaspheres and that is what I simply do not believe based solely on the sonic integrity of the Berning. I wonder what reactions people would have if the Berning cost $12,000.00 and was spread across some audiophile publications? Would it then magically be in the same league because of price status and exposure alone or would people think, it has to sound great, it costs so much and so and so loves it.
Actually, a couple of ZH270's ran as mono blocks sound great but would that comparison (approx. $10k) be fair with the 70W Tenors? Price wise yes, sure but the output power would not be equal and in effect result in an unbalanced comparison.
I know the Tenors and Atmaspheres are great sounding amps, they have to be in order to have such a faithful following. Well you guys, think of how strongly Berning owners feel and I think you will find we are not on opposite sides but more like on different ends of the same bench :)

Chris
mikelavigne OP
1,274 posts
 
Chris (and all you Berning-believers), my reason for starting this thread was to explain that while the Berning is a bang-for-the buck leader.....it is not in the realm of the Tenor. the differences my original post described are the things that separate the "good" from the exceptional.....and there is no "free ride" to exceptional. i don't know how many "exceptional" amps there are (i haven't heard everything), but none i've heard are "as" exceptional as the Tenor on an appropriate speaker.

the law of diminishing returns is in full force at this level, but if you want the best.....you gotta pay. when i listen to the Berning (or many other "good to very good amps") i am listening to excellent hi-fi.....i think about the bass or treble or soundstage. when i listen to the Tenor on my system.....it is close to real.....i think about what the artist is saying or feeling.....the music is served and not the pieces. the comments from fellow listeners focus on the musical event....and how close we are to it.....i have never heard those types of comments listening to my system in the past or any other system.

at the heart of any system that aspires to this level of musical connection will be an exceptional amplifier and speaker combination.

i hope i am not starting round #5 (or is it #6 or #7) but i guess i am entitled to comment as i started this ........

anyway, thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments.....it has been fun and stimulating to read.

oneprof
147 posts
 
I think that we all need to keep in mind Mikelavigne's comment at the end of the first paragraph in his 4-18 posting--"on an appropriate speaker". We've all been around enough to realize how important system synergy is, and while there was some discussion at the beginning of this thread about whether the results of the shoot-out would be the same with, say, electrostatics, these little qualifying statements like "on an appropriate speaker" seem to get lost in translation. We end up talking and thinking in absolutes, as if the Tenor is 'better', PERIOD, at all times and in all contexts. Yes, we all put the qualifying statements in, but then proceed to ignore them. Not a criticism of audiophiles--just human nature.
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