2. amps-preamps
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Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.

I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek
zaikesman
3,017 posts
 
Unsound, virtually any PA system anyone in this country would have heard a live event amplified through in the last 30+ years would be solid state (this, BTW, has almost nothing to do with sound per se, and everything to do with lightweight, cool-running, durable, and inexpensive high-power capability). I have owned many tubed guitar and bass amps, but if this is what you're referring to, the analogy is inherently flawed. Such amps are to be considered part of the instrument, and as such participate intimately in the creation of the sound - not the reproduction of it. (I do think, however, that being a player who has used both tubed and SS instrument amplifiers extensively will give one a valuable insight into how these technologies can respond differently to the music's touch.)
unsound
6,115 posts
 
Asa, with all due respect some individuals "who after a long progression of evolution in stereo" say that solid state is better than tube because it's true to them. Often they say that while they were enamoured with tubes they felt the need to return to fidelity. There sure seems to be a lot of folks here on Audiogon who have gone from tubes to Pass. While I disagree that your evidence is empirical. The fact that so many people agree with your origianl statement is worthy of contemplation. The satisfaction that you recieve from tubes seems to be echoed from many others as well. The fact that solid state ususally measures better than tubes either indicates that tubes offer a euphonic colorization or that we haven't the unbiased equipment to measure solid states shortcomings or that we have different priorities when it comes to sonic short comings. IMHO it's the latter. I look forward to an update of this discussion when there are more digital amps available.
unsound
6,115 posts
 
Zaikesman, yes I was referring to instrument amplification and your point is well taken.
twl
3,251 posts
 
The more things change, the more they stay the same. What I am seeing here is simply a re-hashing of the old "measurements" argument that was totally de-bunked, and trashed over 20 years ago. The measurements do not reflect the sound of the equipment when it is used in real world applications. Yet people still cling to this dead horse. And it gives rise to these incorrect statements about tube colorations and distortion, in comparison to SS amps' colorations and distortions which are usually designed from the ground up to have great measured specs, but can't cut it as well in the listening room. Look, a cheap Yamaha reciever will measure out better than a Ongaku amp in the lab. Is there anyone who thinks that the Yamaha will sound better or be more truly accurate at reproducing music than the Ongaku? Puhleeeese. If measurements are your thing, then go out and buy a set of test instruments and hook your SS amp up to them and watch the meters move. If sound is your thing, then buy a good tube amp and hook it up to your speakers and enjoy music. If you think for one minute that those specification measurements are going to tell you anything about the real world capability of that amp, then you are sadly mistaken. Specs are a marketing scam, and that is all they are. I am very surprised that people on this board are still under the same misconceptions that were thrown out the window 20 years ago. The only spec I need to know is if the unit will turn on. The rest is done with the ears. By the way, the THD of this post was <.00000001%. Wanna buy it?
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
TWL, I think you are putting too much emphasis on Unsound's mentioning specs. Asa, as has been pointed out to you, there are a great number of tube users switching to Pass solid states, class A amps, and hybrid amps. The same can be made of ss users crossing paths with the former.

I am wondering what definition of "space" we are discussing. Coming from a science background, I can only envision a "formless waste."

If it is that all that pervasive thickness that clings to you like a muggy summer day I left behind when I switched to Pass from what I admit wasn't the last word in valve technology, than I don't miss it. If it is the sense of performance ambience that is delineated by location acoustics you want, then what you need is a transparent amp. Secondly, also bare in mind, to reach that end, the choice of speaker is even more important.

I'm partial to both ss and tube camps. I have found a way to harness both's positive attributes, leaving behind negatives. It works for me.
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