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Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.

I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek
inpepinnovations1e75
395 posts
 
TWL, actually the Total Distortion of your post was 100%. I suppose you use those arguements with the judge for a speeding ticket. "Gee Mr. Judge, it didn't feel that fast, no matter what the instruments indicate".

Lighten up! Its just a discussion about why some people prefer Tubes over SS, not a personal attack.

Salut, Bob P.
twl
3,251 posts
 
Okay, I'm out of this thread. Go ahead and hug your measurements. The funny thing is that this argument was over and done with 20 years ago, and many of you haven't even caught on to that yet. I just hate to see people floundering around in the dark. Just in case you need an update, the news in 1980 was that specs don't tell the story. Nothing has changed about that since. I thought this was an audiophile site.
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
I'm with Twl; never even read the specs written in your amp manual - ooo6% is meaningless. It is the final sound that counts. Then again, just saying tubes rule, says nothing, except that of your personal experience.

Great tubes are expensive. I use to employ 22 tubes to do the job of powering my ribbons. I just spent $100 on a pair of small (5751) tubes for my cd player. At that rate, I would spend $1100 for the whole lot. Anybody who knows valve amps, know that what you tube it with is crucial. Most people I know use Telefunken and spend $80 - over $200 for each small 12AX7 tube. Now we are talking big money.

I enjoy all the benefits of tube sound with out all the expense. It's even better with vinyl....And no tubes.
unsound
6,115 posts
 
Specs like everything else in the world can be used or abused. I'm quite sure that the manufacturer used specs in the development of your tube equipment. Don't you guy's narrow down the field of appropriate equipment by power and impedance tolerance? Aren't the taps on your tube amps labled by Ohms instead of A or B or 1 or 2. While our ears are the ultimate test equipment to toss everything else out is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. While specs may have yet to produce the ideal equipment, they probably have saved us from the worst.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
drubin
3,240 posts
 
I'd like to toss out my own empirical tale for comment. I have a Placette pre-amp with a headphone jack. I have both a CJ tube amp and a Pass X-150 SS amp. The CJ does some wonderful things and, in some important respects, sounds more lifelike than the Pass (which, by the way, has never sounded particularly tubelike to me).

Now, back to the headphones. Which amp, playing though my speakers, sounds more like the headphones coming off the Placette? It's the Pass, no doubt about it.

Measurements, be damned, what is a rational person to conclude from this? I conclude that the Pass passes the signal with greater fidelity and the CJ with less fidelity. The end result with the CJ may be more effective musically, but this must be the result of adding something that isn't there or otherwise altering the signal, must it not? Is there another conclusion?

/dan
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