2. amps-preamps
  3. 1031724377

Tubes Do It -- Transistors Don't.

I never thought transistor amps could hold a candle to tube amps. They just never seem to get the "wholeness of the sound of an instrument" quite right. SS doesn't allow an instrument (brass, especially) to "bloom" out in the air, forming a real body of an instrument. Rather, it sounds like a facsimile; a somewhat truncated, stripped version of the real thing. Kind of like taking 3D down to 2-1/2D.

I also hear differences in the actual space the instruments are playing in. With tubes, the space appears continuous, with each instrument occupying a believable part in that space. With SS, the space seems segmented, darker, and less continuous, with instruments somewhat disconnected from each other, almost as if they were panned in with a mixer. I won't claim this to be an accurate description, but I find it hard to describe these phenomena.

There is also the issue of interest -- SS doesn't excite me or maintain my interest. It sounds boring. Something is missing.

Yet, a tube friend of mine recently heard a Pass X-350 amp and thought it sounded great, and better in many ways than his Mac MC-2000 on his Nautilus 800 Signatures. I was shocked to hear this from him. I wasn't present for this comparison, and the Pass is now back at the dealer.

Tubes vs. SS is an endless debate, as has been seen in these forums. I haven't had any of the top solid state choices in my system, so I can't say how they fare compared to tubes. The best SS amp I had was a McCormack DNA-1 Rev. A, but it still didn't sound like my tube amps, VT-100 Mk II & Cary V-12.

Have any of you have tried SS amps that provided these qualities I describe in tubes? Or, did you also find that you couldn't get these qualities from a SS amp?
kevziek
kevziek OP
323 posts
 
The accuracy thing bugs me. Nothing out there is accurate. Every amp presents a facsimile of the musical event, and none is true to it. Some of the SS people just want to push the "science" thing, but it's all for naught.

Again, measurements basically mean crap. I agree with Twl that this should have been discarded long ago. I remember all the older SS amps I had with 0.0001% distortion. They sounded like garbage.

The ultimate question is: which sounds more like real music being reproduced -- tubes or transistors? My experience tells me tubes, but I started this thread to see other's opinions, and I'm open to them. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking what we are listening to is accurate.....nothing is.
unsound
6,115 posts
 
Perhaps nothing is accurate, but isn't fiedelity what we aspire to?
detlof
1,899 posts
 
Aaaaahhh, ASA, it also felt good to read your fine analysis. I love my Spectral system, especially when I am after the intricacies of a given composition, letting my mind follow the musical weavings the composer wrought, analysing and marvelling at a structure, which show mastery of the craft. With the Jadis heated up, I fall into the music, let myself be carried away, forget all until there is nothing but the music....and sometimes even beyond that. It is exactly as you say and there to be experienced and difficult to argue it away.
labtec
182 posts
 
If all tube amps sounded the same and all SS amps sounded the same, then maybe this argument would have a verdict. Actually, it is the design and implentation of these technologies that make the most difference and should be debated.

Even if you concluded that all tube gear generally sounds alike, the other components of a system (especially speakers) can dictate whether SS or tube gear is preferred. In my system, I have found even more exceptions, so unless you have the exact same system, I can't contribute much information that would be helpful.

My one possible contribution is to Kevziek regarding his initial comments. If the McCormack Rev A is the best SS amp you listened to, then your conclusions may be incomplete. I have a Rev A and it is a great amp, but it does not come close to Rev A Gold (which I also have) in delivering the virtues you ascribe to tubes. There are other SS amps (price aside) that may also challenge your assumptions about what transistors can do.
muralman1
1,527 posts
 
Drubin, that's what I've been saying. What cd player are you using? The Pass X amp acts as a signal magnifying free flowing conduit. According to a professional audio system designer I know, the Pass X and XA stand alone. He says, "No one combines execution and sheer circuit-inspiration as completely as Nelson (Pass)"

A group of audiophiles witnessed my system change it's stripes completely, time after time, as we inserted many of currently available cd players. The Pass just got out of the way completely. Sounds swung from warm and wooly, to steely clinical. Among the auditioners, a Musical Fidelity got the nod as the most listenable. It sounded overly lush to me. I still liked best the clean tube sound of my Jolida 100.

Kevziek, I respectfully disagree with your generalization that all amps have a sound. I don't want my amp to have a "sound." Check out the literature concerning modern amp building. There is a small group of designers, led by Nelson Pass, that firmly believe simple circuits are better. Taking that mantra to the outer limits is how Nelson has been able to create the monster X 1000 (kilowatt) that preserves the sweetness, staging, and detail of very simple circuitry.

It is with his ingeniously invisible amp, the X-150, that I have been able to preserve the very best of the Sylvania tube sound coming from my cd player.
More to discover