Ok this will be a good thread.

Twl's controlled environment comparison of turntables and speakers leaves me wondering if there was a good match of the Linn TT/cartridge with the Naim and poor match with the Rega.

Was the Rega TT with the Goldring cartridge and the Naim gear the typical combination you used in that store for demos? What were the customers shopping for who heard the comparison and what did they buy?

Oh, Paulup, did I really say that? Hmmm. Yea, I do jam away on the car radio, and we know that's no good as a component, ie, presumably your "bad". But then again, are we really talking about being that "bad" in componentry? I start out with a hybrid amp with volume control above because I think less than that would be a waste for someone going down our road (my girlfriend is not going down our road, so something more "bad" would be OK; its context dependant, our context being our path).

I said that something may SOUND great on a great system, but if you don't have a will towards the musical meaning - and hence, presumably, a music collection that is reflective of that will and not just great components - then you are kinda wasting what you built.

On the other hand, isn't this a moot question as far as experience? In other words, do you actually know someone who has a great system - defined as one that involves you deeply in the meaning of the music - that doesn't also have a nice collection of music that can help get you there? What person possesess the will to build "great" in a system and then not build "great" in the medium? I don't know anybody like that, and I think where that problem arises, and why people site it, is from the circumstance where a system is built in an accurate way with accuracy of sound prominent as a will - objectifying sound, even if done well - rather than a system that balances accuracy, provides it sufficiently to enable the mind to go deeper, but doesn't become attached to that accuracy at the expense of the deepening receptive musical experience. In those types of systems, many times we see Stereophile-approved components strung together but no "great" music collection. Again, this is a symptom of the mind focused on things - stereo component things, sound as things - and not a will to let go of the mind that wants to control things and, thereby, deepen into the meaning. The mind like that goes for the more impressive things first and predominantly - the components rather than the music - because such minds orientation is towards the exterior; as in, producing covet-ing in the exterior other person. This is also why you can see a correlation between system character, and egocentricity and materialism in the mind that built the system/musci collection. Or, in the case you cite, an imbalance between system and collection.

Just something to think about...

I said, "great music is still great music even on bad systems". The emotional content inherent in better quality music is not derived from its sound.

Asa, all you said was "you're right, ohn," right after Onhwy61 said what he just said. I don't think I disagree with either of you at all. I just said that there are speakers that can make even great music unlistenable, just absolutely destroy it. But, I've never heard an electronic component that could do such damage, which I think is relevant to the subject of this thread.

I enjoy music in cars too. Those little cheap speakers arent trying to do anything creative to the music, just pass it along as faithfully as they can within their limits, obviously FR restricted and dynamically compressed. That's ok, not really damaging.

Paul

Paulup, really didn't think you disagreed either, just yapping and trolling. Sorry, should have not yapped so much and did more trolling. :)

I think your point is a very good one. How can we enjoy musical meaning on a car radio, and then can't sit down to listen to the same song on our stereos, because it doesn't "sound" good enough?

Context again? In other words, do my expectations of the component effect my ability to "let go" and get into the music? Or, another way, does my thinking mind's attachment to thinking about the gear sometimes get in the way of me enjoying myself? Isn't that a focus on form (component) and not meaning (music)?

Audiophilicus Neuroticus?

On the other hand, yea, some speakers make me scream from the room!! But then again, so do some car stereos. My car stereo, although not sophisticated/accurate in terms of "sound", is effective through ommission of too much distortion (causing my thinking mind to take notice to the incongruency), and gets harmonics pretty good. I agree, some speakers don't do these things even; in search of accuracy and only accuracy they may get distortions reduced but leave a sterile void space and carved images that only the analyzing, visually-orientated part of my mind would be drawn to. These types od speakers don't cause me to run for the door, but, in my disinterest, I do start walking there.