Reference DACS: An overall perspective

I've been taking a serious look at the 1611E myself. My understanding from Peter at MBLUSA is that the SACD module is a more complicated addition than a simple plug in, even though on the back of the unit it looks like there is a nice clean spot for it. I think it needs to be sent back to Germany to have the work done and it is not trivial. Still, it seems to me that that a reasonable strategy would be to do the 1611e now and then do the SACD transport and the upgrade to the dac at a later point in time, I think over the summer when it is available. Right now, they can't even quote a price on the upgrade.

My opinion on the MBL digital front ends differs from you guys. I have auditioned 1621/11 and 1521/11 in all MBL system. The 16xx with 6010d, 9011 mono blocks and 101 speakers. The 15xx 1ith 6010d, 9008 stereo amp and 116(?) speakers. In both cases I would describe the sound to be more on neutral and thus towards more on flavor #1 side than #2. The sound is very resolute, detailed and unforgiving (if recording is bad). But realistic sounding with good recordings but with a bit less weight than other reference systems I have auditioned. Better than esoteric one box model and the dcs combo. IMHO. In contrast audio note dac 5.1 and Metronome combo (very little audition time)has extreme bias towards # 2 flavor.

Hi. Very nice thread Teajay! Wonderful input too! Branimir, can you give me your thoughts about this:

I listened to a P-03 / D-03 / G-0s stereo setup. The combination of using this external masterclock together with ES-LINK (1 AES per channel) between P-03 and D-03 was far more superior IMO than likewise using i-LINK (firewire). Unfortunately bad thing is that i-LINK is the only option when using multiple D-03s for a multichannel setup.

I was not able to hear yet a P-01 / D-01 / G-0s setup, simply because I don’t know where to find them in Western Europe. You classify these products as the utmost achievable as front end. Each channel is indeed connected with ES-LINK, which I experienced as the best. Again unfortunately, their flagship 01-series is not able to handle DSD signals as the newer 03-series can do. I know this is a wonderful RBCD thread, but talking so much about Esoteric I would give it a short try and high quality multichannel sound (SACD) is important to me (as is RBCD).

You wrote 10-23-06 “my guess is that Esoteric will release updated version of flagship D-01/P-01 (D-01 D2/P-01 D2???) pretty soon as well with further in-depth involvement with dual DACs (PCM1704/AD1955)”. You also wrote about the character differences of the 03- and 01-series. Are they becoming more alike after that D2-upgrade? If so, what would be the reason (i-LINK?!) why someone would pay an almost double price for the 01-series compared to the likewise 03-series?

Other question, what is changed with “4th generation VRDS NEO”?

Finally… I wish Esoteric 01/03-series had a BLACK-option too!… They would fit better with the other components and don’t reflect light in a MC-audio/HT-video environment.

Furthermore I can say that I’m building (May-07) a new setup around VTL Siegfried (KT88) with VTL TL7.5mkII feeding W/A Alexandria. No cables yet, but I’m interested in Jorma Design’s “Prime” XLR+SP cables. What type of transport/dac do you -and/or other readers- see as best match with this gear?

I believe in the existence of brand-synergy between amp/preamp, transport/dacs, IC/SP-cables and speakers of course when using different types together.

For digital gear my favorites so far are Esoteric, which IMO sounded (and is build) better than EMM Labs, but at a higher price too. Not yet available but in 2007 to be expected dCS MC-gear (with right cables they can deliver real honest and involving music). Beautiful Weiss Medea+Jason (incl it’s upsampler 24/192), but the latter ones are not MC. And finally Theta’s soon to be expected Generation VIII (used as dac only, separate preamp!) connected with their Compli via MegaLinque, a technique to transfer DSD-signals direct to the Gen8. The CasablancaIII would only be a controller and DD/DTS-decoder than with only dig-IN plus dig-OUT, no internal dacs, and smooth integration of HT in a MC-audio setup. But best sound first, than HT, therefor my interest in Esoteric. Look forward to your opinion!

Regards, René

Rene,
First let me tell you that some of your findings are similar to mine.
I know about difficulty to get your hands on D-01/P-01/G-0s in EU... I was in similar process...

Regarding sound differences between two combos IMHO big(D-01/P-01/G-0s) is better in RBCD playback IMO. It is faster, more detailed and with to my ears little bit different bass. It is not that forcefull ar first as smaller(D-03/P-03/G-0s) combo but, longer you listen you see that big combo is actually more realistic in bass then small one. I think that we are talking here about difference between PCM1704(D-01) and AD1955(D-03). Big combo is not that warm(in fact not warm at all) as small one is. Smaller is fatter sounding and this sonic signature can be very pleasing IMO to some people. BTW, if D-01/P-01/G-0s combo is #1.1 sound, then D-03/P-03/G-0s is #1.6! Yes, it is warmer to my ears then big one...
What is better? I do not know-it will pretty much depend on rest of your system(Ha! Here I go again-system synergy...)
You are also right regarding MC setup. I was looking in D-01/P-01 manuals and it is little mess to connect six of them... And I am not talking here about potential cost of such MC combo...

New versions(D2??) of 01 and 03 combos with separate(PCM 1704-RBCD/AD1955-SACD) DACs? IMHO Esoteric will probably wait for first reviews of X-01 D2 and also for first costumers feedback before releasing updated versions of 01 and 03 combos. So, it seems that X-01 D2 is pretty crucial for them IMHO. But, it will be reviewers(and potential costumers as well) nightmare! Why? Too much upsampling and so options! Example: RBCD with PCM1704, then SACD with AD1955, how about RBCD upsampled to SACD via AD1955? Do you know what I mean here?

And I fully agree with you about ES-link vs i-Link. AES/EBU connection works way better IMHO.

D-03/P-03/G-0s is fine match with your system. You may also think about P-03Universal(when it become available in EU) as another interesting candidate(DVD-A and DVD-V!!).

Jorma Prime? Excellent cables IMHO but, they are as well as Acrolink stuff pretty much as unforgiving as cables can be in describing that something is wrong in your system IMO. Do not get me wrong, both are excellent but, you need to match them pretty carefully with the rest of the system.
And I agree with you regarding cable brand synergy. Same brand ICs and speaker cables are the best match IMHO.

Thanks Branimir. In reply to your answers:

“D-03/P-03/G-0s is fine match with your system.”… Why do you suggest this one instead of 01-series? Because of the W/A speakers or the VTL tube amplification? My set is IMO already a mix of #1 and #2 sound, kind of counter-balance. Or do you say this for the price difference between these series, which is huge for MC? Technically both can do MC, 01-series via max 6ch ES-LINK and 03-series via chained i-LINK (firewire).

“P-03Universal(when it become available in EU)”… I compared in July-06 the very first P-03UNI in EU with the P-03. To be honest at that moment I could not hear any difference between them. Maybe it was because of the (for me and not mine) difficult MBL Radialstrahler 101E. Anyway, maybe 01/03-series for best CD/SACD and for coming HDDVD/BR movie formats I rather buy such separate transport if possible from the same brand as the a/v-processor as long as I could integrate it in the MC-dac chain… time will tell.

“Jorma Prime? Excellent cables IMHO”… I’m surprised, you actually know this cable?! As far as I know you’re one of the very few. Great! The distributor over here ordered a IC/SP set, so we are able to listen to it in several weeks. With what gear did you hear them and what was your impression?