My first tube integrated amp max $500 new/used

Another great value in a tube integrated is the Cayin TA-30. It puts out 30-35 Watts into 8 ohms, is built like a tank, and sounds great. I use one with monitors rated at 90dB/1W/1m, and I've never listened with the volume past 10 o'clock. There's one listed in the audiogon classifieds currently for $525. I got mine for a similar price, and it is in a different league than the NAD integrated I was using before it.

Agree with Tireguy...Didactically is off base here.

So far, no one (that I know of) has been able to determine that a particular type of measured results always yields the best sound. True, measurements that are far outside accepted norms for the design in question may be suspect, but distortion measurements are less important than commonly believed. Remember the Japanese contest to achieve the lowest THD? Those units sounded like, well, shit.

The best measurement tool made is between your ears. A well engineered tube amp or preamp can yield a wonderfully musical presentation, and it's not due to "coloration".

Search the archives and you'll find plenty of info to assist you in your search.

Have fun!

Tireguy:

I never said any different, except that I personally do not 'enjoy' distortion, even if described in poetic terms.

Also that I have searched for a low distortion tube amp that I would love to integrate into my system if I could find one with enough power to drive the main panels. But all I can find have distortion levels over the top of acceptability, usually 1-2% or more, and even at that typically over a frequency range of 20hz-20khz.

So, I use SS with THD/IMD at <0.005% over a 5hz-100hz frequency range, so as not to distort the music in order to gain some 'pleasent sounding' masking of the actual music.

But that is just me, apparently, and I am sticking to it.

This emphasis on harmonic distortion is completely unfounded. Of all types of currently measured distortion, harmonic distortion is the most consonant with the musical signal. Why, because the distortion products are harmonically related to the fundamental, just as a given instruments unique sound is related to the harmonics that it produces along with the fundamental tone. Is this distortion good? Hell no, but it is in unison with the music itself. Most other amplifier distortions are not musically related such as intermodulation distortion, transient intermodulation distortion, crossover, or notch distortion (only found in push pull amps of course), slewing induced distortion, typical clipping, etc. and this, by definition, makes these distortions amusical. So why the focus on harmonic distortion? Because in the dark days, it was the first measureable distortion in amps. Here is a great case of the measurement technique defining the importance of the distortion rather than the actual audible effect defining the hirearchy. Harmonic distortion specs are, at best, a one dimensional look at amp performanance and, at worst, a crutch for not looking deeper into the causes of psychoacoustic effects. A great proof of this can be found on Stereophile's Test CD2 which demonstates the effects of added harmonic distortion of the second, third and seventh harmonics. As I point out above, one quickly sees that an amp with .02% harmonic distortion of the seventh harmonic will sound much steelier than an amp with .02% harmonic distortion of the second harmonic, and that all harmonic distortion is more tolerable than IM or other distortions. Most people have not even tried to personally correlate the measurements with audible phenomena, much less understand the science.

Boy, has this thread gotten sidetracked. For once though, it's not my fault : )

All i will say is that if Didactically wants low distortion measurements, we'll give him a system with 100 dB's of negative feedback that is extremely bandwidth limited. The "typical" spec's over that bandwidth will look phenomenal but it will sound like hell.

There's a LOT more to spec's than just "distortion". How and why the distortions are occuring are just as important as the type and quantities of distortions that are measurable. Without having a full bevy of properly conducted test results at one's disposal, a limited quantity of the spec's that most manufacturers typically provide is near useless. Low distortion and all. Sean
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