Triode vs. Pentode

VAC Phi 110/110. KT88 tubes.

Triode should be a more beautiful, open, clear, and detailed sound. The downside is that you will have less oomph in the sound. Even with efficient speakers, such as my Coincidents, the difference power makes is immediately noticeable.

When you listen in pentode, you'll have a lot more power (twice as much), and it will be a more straight ahead, rocking sound.

I disagree with triode being a smoother sound. But, it is a different sound. Again, the keyword is "beautiful", as that is what I equate triode with.

What does the rest of your system consist of, you should be able to hear the differences distinctly. But, I do believe it is common for us to have something going on in our systems where we are unable to hear differences that should be obvious. I was in this same situation for a while in my own system, finally breaking out of it late this spring. CD players, preamps, and cabling had no effect on the sound. One of the solutions was to ditch the preamp altogether, it was imposing its signature on the sound to the point where nothing else mattered.

Telja, my system is VAC Phi 110/110, First Sound Presence Deluxe II preamp, VS VR4 Gen III HSE loudpseakers, Exemplar Denon 2900 Universal player, Au24 ICs, MAS Hybrid Signature speaker cable, Wolff & TG Audio power cords, Shunyata Hydra 4 conditioner, 2 dedicated 20amp lines with Porter Port outlets.

I can't imaging the First Sound is imparting a signature sound of its own; it's known as being a very neutral peice of equipment.

Trelja, FWIW in my vocabulary smoother = less dynamic, but I didn't want to say something that would sound negative to many. But, as I said in my post, I think much has to do with the type of speakers you are going to be using as to whether or not triodes will make your day. I think I understand what you mean by clear, open, and detailed, but I get a little lost with the term "beautiful". Sonically speaking, just what does that mean? :-)

Newbee, it's probably just us seeing these goofy terms in different ways. I'll try my best to describe MY gibberish.

"Beautiful" is a sparkly (I know, no better) sound, where there is a lot of detail and air present, and everything takes on a shimmering tone. I can most easily equate this to brass and cymbals. They will have a tremendous amount of life to them, especially, in the decay of the note.

Smooth, means liquid and relaxed to me. Not necessarily going along with a loss of detail, but it often does. Now that I am typing this, I realize that it may well be the opposite of the shimmer I spoke of when I desribed beautiful above.

Triodes DEFINITELY have the shimmer going on for me, they have less of the "smooth" going on, but I in no way mean to say they are harsh or fatiguing, because they sound nothing of the sort. And, I don't want to say that pentode is smooth, as it is not more smooth, but that "shimmer" dissipates to a large degree. I know I probably sound like I am contradicting myself, but like that Supreme Court justice who knew pornography when he saw it...

Dynamic, to my own warped mind/ears is the ability to present the punch, the true stop/start of the musical event, and the yin and yang of the blackness of silence contrasted with the heat of the note's zenith.

Smooth can be dynamic, as exhibited by my new AtmaSphere amps, which are much more smooth, yet more dynamic than the older revision I also have. I A/Bd both on Saturday during the day and the evening, and the newer ones had great slam in the lower frequencies and were tremendously dynamic. Detail and clarity was outstanding. The older ones appeared more detailed, but a lot of listening more or less showed me that I was mistaking their forwardness for showing more detail and clarity - it was not so.

Neither, despite both being Class A triode amps, exhibits the "beautiful" sound that I was describing of triodes, which was a reflection of my Granite tube monos and other tube amps that I have been around which offered the ability to run either way. Obviously, despite these comments, I am still a tremendous fan of the Atmas, as in so many ways, I think they are the finest sounding amps made. It's more that a lot of tube amps can have a whole lot of sweetness, and it may or may not be always warranted.

Sweetness is another word that REALLY describes triode for me. Going to pentode seems to remove that sweetness, and adds a good measure of punch. Which do I prefer, definitely triode - presuming the speakers don't need more juice. In my own Granites, matched with my Coincidents, when running KT88s, I go for triode. With EL34, I need pentode, as triode doesn't pack enough wallop for me. Overall, KT88 in triode sounds best for me with these amps.

Tvad, you certainly have done a yeoman's job in assembling the system. While everything looks great on paper, I would first look into running CD direct, and secondarily, the speakers. As I said, I faced my own problem of this sort for a good, long time. At one point, two interconnects that I previously heard tremendous differences in showed none at all! It was probably just luck that I was able to work through it, but now I can hear quite meaningful differences in triode/pentode, cabling, CD players, etc.