integrateds in the modern age: consensus?

If all the source signals are at line level (which means that any TT has its own outboard phono preamp) a separate box called a "preamp" really makes no sense. It costs very little to build the selector switch and volume control into the power amp, and perhaps add a gain stage. As a bonus, this eliminates an interconnect. In theory it ought to be better than separate units.

The idea of a separate preamp derives from the days of hum-prone tube circuits. A high gain phono stage on the same chassis as a hefty power supply was asking for trouble.

I prefer Integrated amplifiers simply because you can get a better cost/performance ratio. You not only cut the cost of interconnects, but it also costs the manuf. less money to build the unit material wise. I beleive a $3000 integrated will outperform a $1500 amp and $1500 pre-amp.

If you would like an example I purchased a Simaudio Moon I-5 which cost me around $3000 canadian. The best seperates I heard around $3000 were Parasound Halo P3/A23. The A23 on paper has more power but the I-5 still outperformed the A23. On top of that the I-5 has better quality components (WBT compared to cheap plastic) and is built in Canada.

Of course I'm talking in 'used-prices' but I'll place my Passive Placette/Belles 150a hot rod against any combo/intergrated--in the 1600-for-both,range. It goes against the grain in performance for the price.---Sure you need good stuff ahead of the pre and good speakers to hear just how good cheap stuff is.

its always been about synergy within the system. many quality integrateds have always sounded competitve with expensive separates. the only 'tangible' thing you are certain to give up is the ability to change or experiment with pre and power components(pre outs etc solve that problem though).

Interesting thread. I've been wrestling with this again. Early in my audiophile career, I made several upgrades in certain product lines from integrated to separates, and the move to separates was always a big improvement. But that was then, and in a total price range under $6K.

I'm not so sure that experience is necessarily applicable any more; now that the market is crowded with ambitious integrateds from high-end manufacterers, especially clustered around the $2500-6K range.

Edge, Chord, now PS Audio with its 'control amp', Plinius, SimAudio, a new Bryston integrated, the Bel Canto Evo 2i, Lavardin, YBA, Unison, a host of good tube integrateds; Pathos, Prima Luna, ASL, BAT, ARC; - the list just keeps growing. I think you're getting hard-pressed to say you've found separates for no more money that blow all these away - but let us know.

Interested to hear from more from tekkies who can explain in lay terms the inherent engineering advantages and disadvantages between separates and integrateds...Eldartford made a pretty good start...