2. amps-preamps
  3. 1120761757

Can HI FI components really make music?

Hello everyone. I am posting this question possibly a bit early but I am getting frustrated and am about to throw in the towel, sell everything and buy a Bose wave radio and call it good. My question is does a good HI FI system ever really sound like live music? At this point I think not. I have been in this hobby for about 7 years and just can't seem to get there. Even the system at the local "hi end" dealer does not come close to live music. My system has evolved over the years to the following:

Wadia 861 CD
VTL MB 125 mono blocks
Supratek Chennin Pre
(2) Vandy 2WQ subs
Vandy 3A Sig
Cardas Golden Cross inter con
Kimber Bifocal XL spk cable
Vandy model 5 Xover

All this gear is in a 13x35x8 room. Although the sound is quite good. Better than most any other system Ive heard it still has a long way to go. In all fairness the 3As are not completely broken in but I dont think they will improve to the extent I want them to over the course of the next 30 hrs. My dealers solution is that I should get rid of the Supratek and replace with a VTL 5.5. I dont think so. Been there done that. Although the VTL is decent it cant compete with the Supra.

At this point I think maybe the VTL 125s are just not sophisticated or powerful enough to give me the sound Im looking for. I think they are the weak link along with cabling. I stated earlyer that the dealers system doesnt do it for me either and I think that may be due to the fact that their biggest amp is 185 wpc. Im thinking maybe a sophisticated amp with say 400 wpc might get me there with the 3As. I dont know... but I am not willing to spend 100K to what I want nor could I afford to.

For those of you that are still with me any and all input welcome. I am not one of those thin skinned audiophiles that cries like a baby when someone has the audacity to insult their precious gear. So fire away.

Thanks
braro
gregm
3,021 posts
 
The best a system can do is SIMULATE a musical event -- which simulation may or may not be close to the actual event recorded. Musicians & insturments make music, systems reproduce what's on the storage medium. I'm not saying anything new here.
To put some perspective in the excellent advice above, look for and put into words what ELEMENT of the reproduced sound you MUST have, to bring the sonic result closer to simulating (i.e. acceptably tricking your ears) "live" music...
FOr example, in my case such a very important element is transient attack/dynamics, or whatever you wish to call it: the ability of the system to reproduce sudden (and not so sudden) changes in intensity... YMMV

Generally speaking though, the usual "weak" points in any system are the sources and the speakers -- since both transduce / convert. We then have the matter of each component driving the next component, etc.

I believe that you should listen to a pair of wide-range speakers & horns -- just to experience a different approach. Your electronics certainly seem up to the task of providing good signal & power...
c5150
115 posts
 
Hey

Why don't you buy a wide range of cd players,speakers,interconnects ,amps etc....Play around with it until you hit the jackpot.One in 14 million chance...You call that a hobby? LOL

I'll shut up now!
braro OP
87 posts
 
C5150, I dont see any reason to get rid of everything if a few inexpensive tweaks will get me close to where I want to be. If I can get say 75% of the way there I think I will be quite happy. Especially after realizing its never going to sound like the real thing. My wife put it in perspective when she asked me if Id ever heard a system anywhere that sounded like the real thing. My response was NO.
c5150
115 posts
 
Then I guess ....it's over then.

But let me know if that little voice is still talking to you in a few days and saying...."what if that lonely ,little obnoxious,crazy ,lazy ,good for nothing, nut job was right" Give me a buzz

later dude.

At least you didn't become hostile towards my weirdness.This speaks volumes about you....You are ready for IT
cdc
1,412 posts
 
I strongly agree about Avante Garde Duos and SET. The horn colorations are obvious but they have magic in their musical presentation. They do not have any better dynamics than a regular cone speaker. Based on my listening I think this is a myth. Yes, they can play loud but their dynamic range = difference between loud and soft is no different than, say, B&W or Opera speakers. You'd need Quad ESL's for better micro dynamics but they don't play loud like the Avante-Garde's.

Staying on the "audiophile" track I liked ATC active 100's which have very dynamic bass and can play 115dB all day.

But if it was me, I'd go with a good full range single driver speaker with no whizzer like Bob Brines Fostex FT-200 speaker. You can't get high SPL and good sound for the most part. Also most speakers that play loud can't play soft. It's either one or the other.
If you ever lived with a good single driver speaker you be surprised:
* time and phase coherent.
* sound from point source.
* No change in voicing as with multiple drivers of different materials.
* Excellent PRAT.
* No crossover to add distortion, coloration, absorbs power and the dynamic range of music. As Bobby Palkovic at Merlin said, even adding one capacitor to the x-over creates audible nasty sound.
So the first thing you notice is no bass, no loud volume level, lack of detail, especialy in the HF. Wow, you say, this speaker sucks. But live with it for a while and you get over the audiophile traps and realize real musical satisfaction does not come from these things. My experience anyhow.
More to discover