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VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, or ARC Ref 3?

Finally, the two cold solder joints in one of my Rowland 7M amplifiers have been fixed. Just a simple 2 minutes soldering job at home, thanks to a kind live phone consult by Jeff himself. Now the system is back purring like a kitten.
Great say you, but. . . the problem is that now I have fallen totally prey to Upgraditis Furiosa, the most pernicious and 'wife threatening' form of Audiophilia Nervosa.
I listen mostly to classical--lots of chamber, vocal, Early Music, Baroque, Romantic, some large orchestra, lots of cello and other strings--on a system that I have lovingly put together over the last 20 years: EAD T1000, AT&T glass C-core glass wire, EAD D7000 Mk. 3, AudioQuest Quartz RCA, Audio Research LS2B, Gutwire XLR, Jeff Rowland 7M monoblocks, Cardas Golden Ref PCs on 7M, Cardas Golden Ref speakerwires, MagnePan 3A speakers.
The sound is sweet, lush, with a large if slightly unfocused soundstage, sometimes slightly veiled, somewhat soft at the bottom, can sound glorious in the midrange, good if not spectacular at the top. Much better at small ensembles than at full orchestra, where the sound stage can collapse and full strings and brass often display signs of brittleness and two-dimensionality. But, so much for self-criticism. Now what to do?
I intend to migrate towards a fully balanced system, with redbook and SACD capability and a tube linestage. I will start upgrading at the source and linestage points. The source will be an Esoteric X-01 or an upcoming APL NWO-1. But in this thread I'd like to discuss options for a new linestage. My requirements are an open and detailed, sweet sound, accurate with minimal coloration, with very good but not necessarily overwhelming macro-dynamics, an excellent three-dimensional and accurate soundstage, superior microdynamics and subtle nuance. The linestage must sound great out of the box--after breakin of course: not only after going through many cycles of NOS tubes musical chairs. All of this from a company with a stellar track record and reputation in quality, dependability and pre/post sale support. I listened to the VTL 7.5 and found it to be too soft. The BAT VK51SE sounded too dark. Then I listened at length to the VAC Ren II, which seems to embody all of my requirements. I have not heard the VAC Phi as yet, but it is in the running by inference. Nor I have listened to the ARC Ref 3, although I intend to: Ref 3 is in the running by reputation.
Suggestions? Opinions? It's your turn guys and girls!
guidocorona
guidocorona OP
4,114 posts
 
Thank you Deshapiro, your input is very welcome. Considering your findings on Switchman and Blowtorch and my own musical taste, I consider myself fully forewarned! Here are some further questions for you:
a. What is the input impedance of the Boulder 2060? Ref 3's outputs 600 Ohms which -- as I understand -- needs to be matched with amps with upwards of 20K Ohms input impedance. But the proof remains always only in the pudding!
b. Have you had the opportunity of auditioning/comparing any of the other linestages discussed here (VAC Ren II, VAC Phi, Aesthetix Callisto)? What were the sonic differences with Ref 3?

By the way, it looks like the upgrade to Ref 3 is not terribly extensive: just several tubes and the addition of bypass capacitors. Perhaps OneObGin can tell us how much ARC charges for the upgrade?
jsen
11 posts
 
Guidocorona- In your first post you say you are considering the VAC Ren II, and also the VAC Phi 2.0.

I'm curious to know why you have not mentioned the VAC Ren Signature preamp MK II? Since you are not concerned with phono stage, the signature MK II lists at $13,000, while the Phi 2.0, which doesn't come without phono stage, lists for 15,000.

One thing I like about the Signature MK II, beside the lower cost, it's all point to point wired. The Phi series components use circut boards. Something to consider.

Perhaps you have heard the Signature MK II and feel its not worth the money?
oneobgyn
410 posts
 
Interesting thread

Glad to participate

let me preface by saying that the VAC is not only excellent but a work of art to behold. As well Kevin Hayes has some of the best tubes to buy.

Now having gotten that out of the way, yes ARC has made a rolling line change on the Ref3 and I did the upgrade this week. It adds 4 bypass caps and changes the output tube to the 6550C.

Earlier today an Audiogon member brought his Lamm L2 to my house to a/b in my system vs the ARC Ref3. Much to my amazement as well as his the Ref3 toasted the Lamm L2 in every possible way. Needless to say I was shocked. To me there has always been a synergy between the manufacturer of both amps and preamps.I had been waiting anxiously to hear the L2 expecting to hear big things. What a disappointment. The L2 was lean, bright and fatiguing compared to the ARC Ref 3. I was shocked. My recommendation is to have a serious listen to the Ref 3. Again it is the synergy of the system that makes it work. Bear in mind to all that Vladimir is aware of theshortcomings of the L2 and is working on his L3 which I understand will be available later this year.
guidocorona OP
4,114 posts
 
Thank you once more Oneobgin for your insight. Will the new Lamm be a fully balanced design or will Vladimir continue his single ended tradition?
By the way, how much does ARC charge for the Ref 3 upgrade?

Jsen, unfortunately I have not heard the Ren Sig.
It is my understanding that it has a marvellous slightly softer sound. According to VAC it is currently largely replaced by the Phi, but is still available to audiophiles who prefer its special musicality. Have you compared it to the Phi and Ren II (non Sig) before purchasing it?
hifimaniac
507 posts
 
Hi Guido, the PHI 2.0 does come with a MC and MM phono section standard on the unit and it is superb. I sold my beloved Vendetta Research and Krell KPE Reference preamps once I heard Kevin's phono stage. Kevin told me he is an analog fan! Also, to my knowledge, the PHI is all point to point soldering, no boards. This is why it takes so long for Kevin to produce it. I could have bought either unit, the Ren. Sig was $17K w/phono, but Kevin told me he felt the PHI was even better in many ways, so I believed him. My additional two cents on the PHI 2.0.
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