Stradivari violin

This issue does not apply to violins only, but also to any family of musical instruments or groups of same instruments by the same maker. Yes, it is true as Rcprince points out, that some of the unique nuances of tone and expression that some instruments or groups of instruments by the same maker are lost or at least blurred by the recording process, but there is still plenty of information that is captured to make identification not only possible, but as Danvect points out, quite obvious. These "subtle" differences in timbre, as in the case of Strads vs. Guarnieris, are far more obvious than the differences between say, a Siemens and a Telefunken 6DJ8, differences that we audiophiles agonize over. The problem is that we as audiophiles have many more opportunities to compare different cables, tubes, cartridges etc., so as to form opinions concerning their "family" sounds, than opportunities to hear comparisons of different musical instruments or different equipment used by musicians. But plenty of recorded examples exist; we just need to know what they are.

While I can't claim to be an expert on vintage violins, I can speak with some authority on this issue as concerns woodwind instruments (I play them for a living). The sound of say, a Powell flute, regardless of vintage, is quite different from that of a Haynes or a Brannen; the differences are not that subtle, and are easily captured by the recording process. To hear a classic Haynes sound listen to any recording of Jean Pierre Rampal. An even better example of captured differences in the sound of different makes of flutes are the recordings fo James Galway. Listen to the 1972 recording of the Mozart Flute and Harp Concerto in C K.299 (Angel SC-3783). On this recording Galway, still playing principal flute with the Berlin Phil., is playing on a Powell flute. For comparison, listen to any of his solo recordings on RCA; he plays a Brannen on all of these. If the fact that the Brannen is far more brilliant, aggressive, and almost tin-whistle like is not obvious in comparison to the Powell's suppleness; then as Danvect says, you need a new system.

Other examples: Pepper Adams "Ecounter" Prestige 7677 (1969). Classic Pepper Adams; beautifull and robust baritone sax sound with plenty of warmth and growl. Pepper used a Berg Larson mouthpiece on his horn during the 60's and 70's. His mouthpiece was damaged in the early 80's and had to switch to a Dukoff. Listen to the dramatic difference in sound, and how much more edge and lack of bottom his sound has on "Urban Dreams", Palo Alto Jazz Records PA8009. Incidentally, these differences are not the result of different recording techniques; although this can obviously have an important effect.

Any of Phil Woods' recordings pre 80's. "Rights Of Swing" (1961)or even his great alto solo on Billy Joel's "I Love You Just The Way You Are", are great examples of the classic Selmer(Paris)made saxophone sound: bright but with lots of body and very complex. In the 80's Phil switched to a Yamaha alto. On "Heaven", Blackhawk Records BKH50401-D, the Yamaha's thinner and less complex sound could not be more obvious.

By and large, the differences that we are talking about here are far greater than the differences that dedicated audiophiles are able to hear by "tweaking" our systems. And once again we, IMO, come back to the reality that for the audiophile that wants to really sensitize him/herself to details such as these; the best education is a good amount of exposure to live music. In the live music experience, all the details and wonderfull complexities of fine musical instruments, are revealed that much more obviously.

To anyone really committed to learning about what makes instruments tick, so to speak, from the musician's perspective; there are plenty of resources. Periodicals such as "Woodwind Player", "Downbeat", "The Grenadilla Society", "Stradiverius Society", "Flute Talk" and others offer articles and interviews with leading professionals and discussions on this very topic.

Regards and Happy Holidays.

Just my two cents...

Regardless of whether you are talking about Strads or Guarneri's, it is the tone of the particular performer that often has a greater "sonic signature" than the maker of the instrument. The greatest performers have a signature tone that carries over from instrument to instrument. For example, Yo-Yo Ma's early recordings were made on a Gofriller, later ones on either a Strad or Montagnana. Yet, in all of his recordings, early or late, it is the same sweet, beautiful tone. Slight differences, of course, but the same unmistakeable character.

This is even more interesting when you consider the previous owners of Yo-Yo Ma's cellos. I once heard Ma perform the Elgar cello concerto live, on his Davidov Strad. Beautiful performance. However, Jacqueline du Pre performed on the Davidov Strad for most of her tragically short career. Same instrument, TOTALLY different tones. Similarly, Ma's Gofriller was previously used by Pierre Fournier. Again, same instrument, very different tones.

Personally, I think it is more interesting to listen for the characteristics of a performer's sound, rather than try to determine the general sonic characteristics of a particular instrument maker.

Happy listening.

-EWHA

I have one CD album which made by TACET and title is what about this Mr.Paganini? The Album played seven most famous violins, Amati,Guadagnini,A Guarneri,P. Guarneri, Horvath, Straivari and Vuillaume by Saschko Gawriloff. He play Johann Sebastian Bach Partica d-Moll BWV 1004: Sarabande on seven different violin that I listed above. U probably will hear the difference between them. Tacet have many good classical music CD which has a good recording. I do not know if u can purchase in US, it made in Germany. If u have a problem to purchase it or order from online and just send me a mail.

good luck

I wonder how much of this is brainwashing? Since we are told it is a Stradivari violin; do we react to that knowledge positively instead of what we hear? If someone lied would you folks know it was not a Stradivari, considering even they all sound different?

I listen to the performer, not the instrument they are playing. Would you skip going to hear Mr. Ma or Mr. Bell soley because you found out they were using a violin borrowed from an orchestra member?

By the way Chinese people put there last name first, so his name should be spoken Ma Yo Yo.

Excellent posts! Frogman, I think that you're right, as a musician who plays wind instruments your training and expertise make it easier to spot the differences in types of instruments, just as my experience as a guitarist makes it easier for me to hear differences on recordings between a Martin, Guild or Gibson. You can train your ear to hear the differences, but the casual listener or ordinary music lover may not be able to make the distinction. But I agree with Ewha's assessment that the artist's style can be more recognizable than the particular instrument that artist is playing. The better instruments can remove the boundaries of what the artist wants to communicate, and help the artist develop a sound that he/she wants, but ultimately it is the musician's style and soul that makes them distinctive to me and what I'm listening for.