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Orchestral brass and fanfare - analysis of system

The question is - where do the elements of great brass reproduction reside in a system? In the story below, I think performance is limited by either my amp or tweeter. What do you think?

And now my story ...
My system at present:

Electrocompaniet EMC1 CDP with MKII upgrade
Pass Labs X-1 Pre
Krell KAV250a amp
B&W Nautilus 805s
Audioquest interconnect
Discovery speaker cable.

What I hear from individual solo brass instruments:
Lyrical sound with good harmonics and good "Pratt".
Equally good with coronets, flugels, trombones, baritones;
french horns may be a little compressed - but then that is their natural sound. Works equally well on loud and soft passages.

What I hear from symphonic brass in fanfare is different:
[e.g. Copland - new world symphony ]The "Pratt" is still there, mids and lows are good, however the highs become compressed at LOUD volumes. On low volume passages the system relaxes into my comfort zone again.

My own thoughts:

1. Is this the sound of clipping?
2. Is this the metal tweeter on the 805s?
3. Is this amp unable to open up the speakers enough?
(Krell generally has plenty of headroom - even the KAVs)
4. Have I hit the wall with what my speakers can do?
judit
lugnut
1,190 posts
 
Judit,

I'm sorry I gave such a brief reply to your post. The other members have addressed your concern more fully than I have. My statement was made from listener experience since I have yet to hear a full orchestra classical recording that is reproduced to my satisfaction. My system is modest by comparrison to many here and simply may be incapable of ever satisfying that type of demanding music. I do have non-classical music that encorporates full orchestra and uses lots of brass. On a few of these recordings the effect is staggering it's so real. I have found in very general terms that a great recording is similar to spending several thousand dollars on equipment upgrades. Average pop recordings are more listenable than average classical recordings so I may have made an incorrect analogy but my experience supports my earlier post. It's my humble belief that great classical recordings are the most difficult to make of all music. The same holds true on the hardware end. Any system that can pull off classical reproduction that is satisfying is approaching the pinnacle of our hobby.
gregm
3,021 posts
 
Lugnut, allow me to second your proposition.
ivanj
640 posts
 
I like Stenho's comments. Look to the amp. The impedence curve of many speakers have funky phase angles and dips in the lower midrange and so on. I've replaced several amps that otherwise sounded fine but were unmasked by symphonic brass. It was the amp and not other components that was the culprit. Of course, the speaker designer could have redesigned the crossover to make it an easier load but this was not in the cards...
judit OP
217 posts
 
I hear some very strong arguments here suggesting a link of this problem to amplifier performance. I do not know what the performance curves of the Krell look like, so I am not sure what happens at the high end. It is the weak link in my system, without doubt-it is a hometheater product.

Krell is supposed to be a good match for B&W, but perhaps the unit I own is a notch too low in the performance chain. I own a pair of Vandersteen model 3s upstairs that I will swap in, for diagnostic purposes. I am thinking I would like to try an amp like the Pass X-350, a class A design like the Krell [if I have my facts straight], but in another league entirely.

By the way, I appreciate the thought that went into many of these responses.
marakanetz's avatar
marakanetz
5,473 posts
 
Judit, it's right-on Vandys3a with Pass X-350 will certainly handle this situation much better. Vandys3a have one of the best top-end extention among the speakers of its class and higher.
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