Retail Buying - Reality Check

As someone who's been around hi-end retail sales for a good portion of my life, and who knows exactly what it takes to build very good to WORLD CLASS AUDIO/VIDEO SYSTEMS and environments, I can easily say that the way "Rogocop" has conducted his buying desissions has landed him AN INFERIOR AUDIO/VISUAL EXPERIENCE!!!!...as it does 99.999+ percent of the internet buying public! I don't care if someone reads every article and review ever printed, and takes every audio salesmans advice and "sucks his brain" for knowledge! It still won't help you end up with a quality experience!... NEVER HAS, NEVER WILL! How can I say that, you may ask? Even without knowing what he ended up with, who he delt with, and what he paid for his gear? ...SIMPLE!!!!... because, HE'S MISSING OUT HAVING SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING (LIKELY LIGHT YEARS BEYOND WHAT THE AUDIO NEWBIE CAN DO ON HIS OWN) PUT THE SYSTEM TOGETHER FOR HIM!!!
One of the major things I've learned from selling audio gear to people over the years is that YOU CANNOT REPLACE EXTENSIVE TIED AND TRUE KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, SKILL, DEDICATION, DESIRE, AND SERVICE!!! Yes, indeed buying things over the net takes the "people" out of sales! The end result is that any potential "team effort" goes away!
I've personally assembled over 1000 systems in my 20 years around this business. And I know without a shadow of a doubt, that the buying public is not getting what they think they are bargaining for!!
So, I ask you everyone here..."do you think it's a better deal by saving money shopping for gear on line?" "Is Rogocop getting a better deal by saving a bunch of money with on-line purchases?" If you ask me, I don't think so. Infact, I'm EXTREMELY CONFIDENT that, iF I was a retail salesman that Rogocop had purchased the same equipment from, and he paid me more than double what full retail price was, and he let me install the entire system, design the system out, place the gear, and basically make it all come together for him(with compromises even), that he would end up with EASILY 200% BETTER RESULTS AND EXPERIENCE!!...giving him a better quality of life experience day in and day out with his gear!!! ..In escense, a quality of life improvment far beyond what he could get "without the relationship"!!!!
So, for me, since service is where it's at, I wouldn't sweat the "net" any if I did retail!!! Because people REALLY AREN'T GETTING BETTER VALUE BECAUSE THERE'S MORE MONEY IN THE POCKET INNITIALLY! Infact, if these buyers, like "Rogocop" ever catch wind of what's the potential of an AV system to be had in a room, I think he might end up respending all over again!!!..and again...and again, if he wants a world class AV system some day, and insists on doing it the way he's chosen. My two cents....

If only it *were* two cents, foreverhifi2000... (or should we call you foreverhifi$200,000 ? ;^)

Well, a lot of similar themes spiced with a few dissonant contrarians. I thank you for all of them.

Without trying to defend myself to foreverhifi2000, let me say this about that.

The system I am ending up with is essentially the system spec'd. out by the retailers with a few major improvements. Because I have money in my pocket, and not in the retailers, from my web buys, I was able to to run my B&W Nautilus 801s (that I bought for $8k instead of $11)with a Mac 602 and the B&W center with a Mac 352 (mono) and my 4 surrounds with 2 Mac 352s instead of the MC206 which they spec'd. I was able to buy a Marantz VP 12S2 for $9k instead of the $13k I was quoted. The theater, acoustics and some equipment selections are being designed by Dennis Erskine of Design Cinema Privee. His skill and knowledge leaves anyone I talked to in a store in the dust. He's not Carl the installer who graduated from Bubba's Window Tinting and Car Stereo Shop to HT installs.

So, I'm not buying that I missed something in this experience or that as a penny pinching, short sighted newbie I failed to see the forest through the trees. I think I've maxxed out my dollar value pretty well. Without these savings I would not have been able to afford people like Dennis or the Mac 602 and and it's little cousin 352s.

Personally, I'm not a haggler for every nickel kind of guy. Sure I could have told these guys that I wasn't going to pay full retail, but I was already in the hole because of where the negotiations were starting from (MSRP). They'd would have made me feel like I was taking bread out of their kids' mouths for a few % discount, when with very little haggling, Audiogon sellers are selling at or near retailer's costs. I guess they saw a sucker coming through the door.

Someone asked if people know my margins... My answer - The ones who do their homework do. I respect them for it. And, in my market place I kill my competition because I give more value for the dollar than they do. Open up the Atlanta Journal Constitution Real Estate section on any Sunday and see my add "Dare to Compare at Carlyle Square". So honestly, I walk the talk.

This has been a blast! Thanks for the input.

Where else are negotiations supposed to start from besides MSRP? And there would be more bread in those dealers' kids' mouths had they sold you something. Far be it from me to get on anyone's case for buying through Audiogon, please don't get me wrong. And not everyone enjoys negotiations, and I understand that. But frankly, the discounts you got buying used on the 'net don't seem that far below what you might have gotten new with a warranty had you been game for a little bargaining. I'm glad it seems to have worked out for you, but don't be under any illusions that what you did wasn't using your local dealers for their demonstration facilities and advice, and then take your show on the road to sellers who didn't need that overhead expense to get your business.

Foreverhifi2000, your response cracked me up!

Beautiful parody of the egotistical self-righteous attitude that typifies why I so dislike high end stores! Very, very funny. You captured that I-know-so-much-more-than-you essence so well--you know, the whole thing that drives consumers like me away sooo fast. I just loved it.

The caps were a bit over the top tho'--kind of made you look like you were ranting or something.