HELP Electrocompaniet stole Christmas

Sorry for the confusion and i do apologize to Sos for my "second round" of attacks.

Fs: yes, my comments were directed to you and in response to your last post. I'm sorry if you find them inappropriate, but that is how i feel. I am not good at hiding my thoughts / feelings, so i simply go with the flow. This has gotten me into trouble before and i'm sure that it will in the future. Then again, it has allowed me to "cut to the chase" many times and saved a lot of hassles along the way for everyone involved.

As to Joe's comments, they are applicable as it seems to demonstrate that Alan is consistent in his dealings / public relations / attitudes in dealing with people. Ernie presented the situation and one was left with the idea that Alan was not easy to work with, lacked customer skills and was not very "people friendly". Joe's past experience and comments basically confirm what Ernie's "one sided story" laid out for us. As such, i've just heard from two members that i both respect as individuals and as audiophiles that have shared relatively common experiences with the same "jerk".

The bottom line is still the same: will EC support the products that they manufacture and market ? Whether or not they do is the prime consideration. The situation with Alan is secondary at best. Ernie ( and others judging by previous posts ) simply wants his EC product upgraded. I don't think he'd care if Alan or a monkey did the work so long as it was done "right", the actual work performed and parts installed had a warranty and the total experience was "reasonably priced". He's really not asking for much. Sean
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Trelja...Please forgive my emotional response. Simply a defensive reaction to your statements, which I should have toned down before posting.

Best Regards...Mike - Father & Son Audio

Ernie,

What a pain in the Ace! Everything has already been said but since this is not a warranty issue, why not do it. Used, grey market so what. Solve the customers problem and this big mess would not have been debated on the Gon.

BTW, Ernie and I emailed recently about the EMC-1, I will not be buying one either. Sorry Ernie, I would be out of business if my company did not resolve our customer issues no matter what, period. Looks to me like they missed the opportunity to turn a negative from a customer into a positve. Imagine that. Oh yeah, bought a used Pass Labs X-1 preamp here on the Gon a few weeks ago and Pass sent me a shorter connection cord that goes between the pre and power supply for free. Too bad they don't make CD players.

Now, hows that Ayre sound again!!

Sean is still reading my mind, just a little more bluntly. While I appreciate Sos' efforts to come into the discussion with a different perspective, I continue to find their focus on the issue of warranties to be somewhat off-topic. Obviously, almost everyone reading on this forum will be copacetic with the idea of buying used, and that usually means no warranty. In Ernie's case, the supposed fact that his unit may have originally been gray-market shouldn't have had any impact on the situation, since as a second-hand owner he wasn't seeking warranty service anyway.

I don't think anybody could really argue with a manufacturer who stated a policy saying that products not purchased through their domestic authorized dealer network would be ineligible for normal warranty service by that market's distributor. There should certainly be a provision for offering paid non-warranty service however, and maybe even a discounted rate for paid in-warranty service offered to original owners of merchandise bought from non-domestic authorized dealers (gray-market). Whether or not to offer transferrable warranties to second-hand owners is a separate question, but again I don't think anyone would balk if a company stated that such a policy could not be extended to second-hand purchasers of gray-market units, or at least not without some sort of discounted rate or reinstatement fee being charged. But again, that's not the issue here.

I think that pretty much this whole participating forum has agreed that:

A) In this case the distributor did not do right by the customer in Mr. Warshaw's handling of Ernie's situation.

B) Ernie ought to be able to purchase this upgrade, at the very least, for the regular full-boat price and no more. He quite possibly should even get it at the discounted price he originally arranged to have it done for, since no one (that is, neither the dealer nor the distributor) thought to check for the gray-market eventuality prior to agreeing on Ernie's price and course of action. But even if Ernie doesn't ulimately get the discounted rate, he certainly shouldn't have to pay to ship his player anywhere, simply by virture of the distributor's mishandling of the process so far.

To sum up, what Ernie and we (and F&S) are going to find out, is whether EC and their US representative place the customer's interests first, or not. So far, their policies seem to indicate that they even put their unscrupulous Danish dealer's interests ahead of those of the customer, but we shall see. Regardless, Mr. Warshaw's actions heretofore clearly indicate that he puts his own interests ahead of the customer's. As for the issue of whether Ernie ought to defer to F&S, as the dealer involved, in interceding on his behalf with the distributor and manufacturer, I respectfully submit that the situation has already gone too far for them to be his best advocate. Ernie's dealing has really been more with the distributor than with the dealer; Mr. Warshaw has already superceded F&S's wishes and authority in this matter, and only EC themselves can effect a remedy, barring a change of heart on Mr. Warshaw's part. While F&S's efforts are both necessary and reassuring - and should be continued - regardless of whether or not they are successful in persuading Mr. Warshaw to reverse course, I think Ernie should let them know that he will be contacting EC personally about what has transpired up 'til now, as is his perfect right (and duty, IMO). As has been stated, and is evident to anyone reading, this question as it regards EC in America is now (and in truth must have been before) an issue bigger than one second-hand customer's upgrade trials and tribulations.

I think there are good reasons why some companies products continue to do well on the used and new market.

Companies such as Ayre, Krell, Mark Levinson, Magnapan, Sonic Frontiers/Anthem, Pass, Plinius and GamuT (these I (and friends) have had wonderful dealings with) really stand behind their products. Many times they will even stand behind products that are out of warranty and not even owned by the original owner. I have several stories that I may tell later in this thread.

It is such a better business decision to support your products wherether they be new, used, or even grey market. The manufacturer made the product and they should offer the various upgrades and product support to anyone who owns their products. The grey market issue is a problem best resolved at the manufacturer and dealer level. Most of the time it is not that terribly hard to fix.

As Audiophiles we should support companies that stand behind all of their products. And not companies/distributors that play games with their customers. The world is becoming a global economy. Companies need to rethink their pricing strategy to accomodate the global economy.

KF