tube amps and electrostatics

The B&W 802D is, FWIW, an excellent example of Voltage Paradigm technology.

The woofers are each 8 ohms, but also 3db less efficient than the 8 ohm mid range and tweeter. They are in parallel, which requires the amplifier to double its power into the woofer load. This brings their output up by 3db, causing them to match with the rest of the speaker.

Yet the spec on the speaker says they are 'nominally 8 ohms'!

The requirement of the speaker is such that almost any amplifier driving it will have to have a fair amount of feedback to do so. This will cause the amp to be un-naturally bright. IMO this makes the speaker a poor choice as you will not be able to find an amplifier that will actually cause the combination to sound like real music.

This is not true of ESLs.

"The requirement of the speaker is such that almost any amplifier driving it will have to have a fair amount of feedback to do so. This will cause the amp to be un-naturally bright. IMO this makes the speaker a poor choice as you will not be able to find an amplifier that will actually cause the combination to sound like real music."

B&Ws like those often tend to sound bright to me as well, but not always.

I'd compare those to my OHM Walsh speakers, which has impedance drop just below 3 ohm in teh mid bass region based on measures I have seen, but seldom ever sound naturally bright. There a single Walsh style driver does most of teh work up to 7khz or so. There is no driver efficiency mismatch issues to deal with in teh case of the OHM CLS driver. I suspect that might be part of the reason.

MY Bel Canto Class D amps use feedback as well. Brightness and/or fatigue is a non -issue.

I auditioned modern Quad ESLs prior to trying the OHMs. They were a reference standard for me as I heard them in every area except microdynamics. The OHM sound resembles that ES sound with the right amp + the macrodynamics one associated with a traditional dynamic driver.

"They were a reference standard for me as I heard them in every area except microdynamics. "

Whoops, mean't to say macrodynamics there actually. Sorry. ES speakers I have heard tend to have microdynamics in spades.

****Whoops, mean't to say macrodynamics there actually. Sorry. ES speakers I have heard tend to have microdynamics in spades.****

Phew!!! Had me worried there for about a second or two.

Ralph, what you say makes a lot of sense. Notably, take a look at some of the Class A speakers profiled on Stereophile's 2013 List of Recommended Components, here:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/2013-recommended-components-loudspeakers

Most if not all the selected speakers (including B&W 800-Ds)seem to have the type of impedance characteristics you referred to above.

Based on discussions with Paradigm, I'm pretty sure my speakers were also voiced to be driven by a high current SS amp. FWIW, I understand that my version of the Signature 8 (v3) was redesigned whereby the woofers are now 3 db more sensitive. As a result, the mid and tweeter drivers were "unpadded" to be driven full bore. So, the current v3 version has a rated sensitivity of 92 db verses the v2 version, which was 89 db.

I gather that 3 db is a considerable increase in sensitivity. As such, based on what you said above, the S8 v3s are an easier load, regardless of whatever type amp is being used.

Nevertheless, I also gather than even though any type of amp should be less stressed driving the S8s, one is still left with the issue of acoustic coloration, the amount of which is dependent, in large part, on the amp's output impedance. Ergo, the caveat that some tube amps might not be a good candidate, particularly those not using any or very little NF. The same point also being relevant to many other speakers as well, which if technically correct, is an important take-a-way point.

Thanks again Ralph.