Legacy 20/20 and Tubes

Froggerz: People can like whatever they want. Given that this is an open discussion forum where different people share different points of view and exchange ideas, it would be nice to have some idea as to where someone is coming from i.e. having a point of reference to better understand their comments.

As an example, if someone says "Brand A is the best i've ever heard", yet Brand A has a very unique presentation that widely deviates from the accepted standards of neutrality, others may want to be made aware of this. On top of that, if a product fails to meet its' own published spec's, others may want to be made aware of this. If i'm wrong for pointing this out or making others aware of such facts, then i'll stop posting technical commentaries.

My thoughts were that, given that many only know what they see in these forums & glossy mags, don't know how things work on a technical level and / or how to interpret spec's, the more background that they have on a subject, the more they can form their own opinions. Given that the comments that i've made in this and other similar threads can all be verified and supported by third party sources ( published reviews & reference grade text books ), what difference do you think my comments will make in terms of someone liking / disliking what they hear?

Like i've said in the past, one should buy and use what they like and will enjoy. I'm simply offering my point of view and explaining why i look at things the way that i do. If that can help someone to better understand the why's and how's of what they like / dislike in a product, i've done everything that i've hoped to achieve. Other than that, my comments are worth whatever an individual wants to value them at. Sean
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I have read many posts' by Sean and appreciate his input.
He is obviously very experienced and knowledgable in the
high-end audio arena. One shouldn't dismiss a posting because
he/she doesn't agree with the content. I have learned not to take offense
when someone doesn't happen to like a piece of gear that I may own and love.
Audio is very subjective by nature given the multitude of variables,
e.g., gear synergy, room, power, cables, ears, etc.

But on the subject of the 20/20's, the one common thread that I have read/heard over and over from experienced audiophiles is, TOO MANY DRIVERS. Another common thread amongst audio folk is,
many mag's, especially Stereophile (to which I subscribe) seems to love everything they review.
Often times, there is a piece of gear that I am interested in, but don't have a dealer in my area and have to rely on print and word of mouth. I for one, can find it very difficult to make audio decisions when everything in the mag's is great.

To reiterate, when I read the rave review in Sphile on the 20/20, I said, "I gotta have 'em"!
Thank goodness I had a dealer in my area that (reluctantly) let me do an in home demo for two weeks with the 20/20. Which allowed me to find out that I didn't like them, without spending/losing a lot of my hard earned cash. I would have been absolutely livid had I bought a pair of these just based on that review.

More to the point: I have found that I can put more credence behind what I read in the forum section here than most of the mag's in regards to a particular piece. I have made many good decisions doing my "homework" here.

Audiogon is an invaluable tool to learn from, as are many who post here,
you just gotta learn how to discern who is "blowing smoke" and who is the "real McCoy".

Perfectionist, I agree that Audiogon is a great place to learn new things... I cetainly do not doubt Sean (or your)experiences with Legacy, nor do I feel they are unreasonable to have or talk openly about.

My one concern is that the poster never asked about what you, Sean or I feel about Legacy speakers. He asked about using a specific preamp/amp combo with the Focus 20/20. He never said "Legacy is the best" or any such statement. Instead, you and Sean have given your personal negative views on Legacy speakers. In my opinion, that is off topic to the original post.

I am sure you and Sean's feelings toward the Focus 20/20 will be appreciated in many posts... I just feel this one is probably not the best place for them.

Happy Listening,

---Dave

I made a BIG mistake here. I confused the design of the Whisper ( multiple stacked and staggered mids ) with that of the Focus ( vertical array ). As such, some of my comments, primarily those about lobing within the horizontal plane of the Focus, are not quite as applicable. I am sorry for any confusion that this may have caused. There will be comb-filtering taking place in the Focus though as it does use dual drivers spaced widely apart in an MTM array.

Having said that, all of the info included is correct pertaining to lobing, cancellation, peaks & dips, limited specificity of imaging, etc... on designs that use multiple drivers sharing the same frequency range mounted side by side and / or staggered pairs that are mounted both vertically and horizontally.

One can see the differences between how the Focus and other Legacy designs function and what i'm referring to here by reviewing pictures of their product line. The wider that the similar drivers are spaced apart, the more erratic the dispersion and more sensitive the sound will be to listening height, distance and angle. This is why most designers have abandoned horizontal driver alignment and have switched to vertical driver alignments.

All of the designs pictured will require greater than average listening distances in order for the drivers to blend together. As i've mentioned in other threads, this is true of any design that uses a large quantity of drivers and / or a design that has the drivers spaced widely apart. Trying to use a speaker of this size and design in a smaller room and / or in a nearfield listening situation will result in sound that is far less than cohesive. Once again, if one wants to achieve good results, you have to pick and choose components that will work well with the environment they will be working with and electrical demands placed upon them. Even then, one will not be able to achieve the level of image specificity that one might experience using a speaker with fewer drivers in a more conventional configuration. Whether or not imaging is important to the individual is obviously a matter of personal preference.

As a side note and for sake of clarification, imaging and soundstage presentation are two different things. Many people confuse the two thinking that a system with a wide / deep / tall soundstage is the same as having good imaging. This is not true as imaging is the specific placement of individual notes / performers within the soundstage itself. Kind of like looking at a picture of a crowd of people, but being able to see all of the people as individuals. Sean
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PS... I have speakers that image very well ( vertically aligned drivers ) and i have speakers that lack image specificity ( omni's ). These are simply different types of presentation with both sounding good, just different. Some may like one type of presentation more than the other. As mentioned, one has to judge for themselves what they like and want to end up with over the long haul.

Having said that, i think that most would agree that knowing more about such things before making a large investment in speakers may help them to look, listen and recognize that such differences do exist. Finding out about such things and / or being exposed to different types of presentations AFTER an expensive purchase has been made can be very disappointing to say the least. Sean
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Drseid: Based on the content of the original question, the poster didn't own the specific Legacy's mentioned at the time. While i may be making a big assumption here, i would guess that they would like as much info about a potential product as is possible prior to making this type of investment. I could be wrong here, but the fact that they posted such a question tells me that they were still pondering the situation and unsure about the product in question.

On top of that, i need to correct one of my previous statements ( "I let my personal point of view cloud the issues and never even responded to the questions at hand." ) If you go back and read my original post, you'll see that my comments directly pertained to the question at hand. That is, the compatability of such an amplifier / speaker interphase, the basic sonic compliments of the components he already had and the electrical characteristics that the speakers inquired about typically work best with.

I then went on to share my own personal opinions of how i thought such a combo would sound and told them that whether or not they would like such a combo would be up to their ears and personal preferences. Things progressed from there based on other input generated within the thread.

Can you please point out to me where i led the thread astray? After reviewing this thread again, it looks like i was simply responding to comments made to or about my previous comments and / or offering further clarification as to why i had made them in the first place. Sean
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