PMC vs. ATC

Dear Nrchy: Yes, is true and you have to hear it: great !!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I have a feeling you two know each other ;-). I heard both speakers in exactly the same system dem - there is no issue of a "bad dem". It was a dealer dem with both speakers at the same time and was repeated accross several dealers. Your comments that I should have known that I was getting a bad dem but failed to perceive this are therefore pure supposition, incorrect and therefore irrelevent. I have had plenty of bad dems in the past and lots of dealer rhetoric and I know it instantly - you are doing it now. The self proclaimed "expert" trying to use his "expert" status instead of anything more substantial. ;-)

ATC are first and foremost a studio desk monitor company and that is what their products are designed for. Read their website. PMC are mastering suite monitors and that is something compeltely different. PMC are not a "copy" of ATC - they sound very different. I would suggest that repeated listening to megadeth at 110db+ has perhaps permanantly damaged your hearing if you cannot hear the difference ;-)! In terms of sound the atc has classic desk monitor balance while the PMC is much closer to the BBC sound.

The PMC has greatest advantage over the atc in the midrange, they orignally used the atc unit many years ago but switched to their own and this caused performance to leap forward, where it has remained. The extra "detail" of the atc is merely a treble boost relative to the PMC. Once that effect has worn off in perception then the PMC reveals it is more detailed and the treble is in better perspective.

You make a lot of baseless assumptions - "bad dems" or that I have not listened to the latest variants - in an attempt to undermine my remarks. Sorry but it won't work - stick to the facts.

Brizon,

I don't have to read the websites I have measured the speakers talked to the designers and have measurements that unless you requested them from the manufacturers yourself or worked there do not have.

Yeah they sound a little different but again like you mentioned the ATC's require close to wall placement and PMC's do not. If you pull ATC's out into the room you greatly affect their tonal balance to the negative. And where I disagree with you is this night and day portrayal of these speakers. As for BBC sound?, that is garbage, why would a Mastering monitor require a nearfield small speaker patch up?

Expert status like yours?, are you a tourist or the real deal bro, don't poke around. If you understand impulse response and IMD then don't play coy. Lets chat it up and educate the folks about how a speaker works.

Look I really don't want to go on and on I stated my case and my experience. Let it get sorted out from there. If you want to talk real tech then give me some real reasons other than your tourist perspective.

The ATC's are sharp and ATC are always having to mouth spiel about "accuracy" and "harsh recordings" to sell them. They are designed for mix analysis - that is where atc started and where they sold to the studios. That is their history and that is fact. Neither impulse response or IMD are relevent here you are just tossing in technical terms to try to make yourself look like an expert, hoping that I don't know what they mean and will back down. Unfortunately I understand them very well. The very fact that you have used terms that have no relevence prooves you are not an expert. Let's talk tweeter characteristics and crossover voicing. That is where the atc problem lies and they are voiced that way for a reason. It also explains why ATC have problems selling domestically in comparison to pmc who are the fastest growing audio company in the uk on the back of their domestic sales.

As I said in my previous emails throwing your baseless suppositions and trying to claim a position of superiority just doesnt work. It stands or falls by the facts and the listening experience. I didn't claim expert status - you did - so I don't have to defend myself as a "tourist". Incidentally I mentioned nothing about speaker placement (which influences the bass). However, PMC are a transmission design with a full bass and very effective room loading so benefit from free space siting. ATC have neither of these advantages so doubtless benefit from rear wall reinforcement. Which has nothing to do with the harshness of the atc anyway. As for the bbc sound the pmc owes a lot to that heritage and voicing - the designers were ex-bbc engineers and wanted to develop a full range design based on that ethos. Which they did - and forms the basis of my assertion.

I don't need a high frequency response plot to know a speaker is sharp if my ears are bleeding!

You are an atc dealer on audiogon. I seriously question your impartiality in this matter and beleive you are writing this for the benefit of potential customers that might be reading this. You must be aware I am not going to fall for it but plenty of audiophiles are pretty gullible and will fall for dealer rhetoric. I hope my response will make them think twice.

You're right Brizon, we're all in collusion against you. Stereophile is out to get you too.
You've gotta check out Audio Asylum. I can just imagine you and RGA going at it!
Happy 7 day anniversary as an Audiogon member :-).