Pick your poison...2-channel or multi?

213 Cobra

"in music fidelity terms you've got nuthin'"

So unwise, your choice of words. Harvard's School of Medicine and Bell Labs disagree, they say we've got more fidelity and musicality. They said it not me...like in the 50's and 60's

CDwallace is trying to tell you that he's heard differently, and if you read carefully what you "think" now is no different from what he "thought" before his experience.

See he strolled into a situation he wasn't prepared for, and you also would not be prepared for either. And he embellishes in the comparison as the surround system was less than $10K and the two channel systems $15K+, 30K+....hmm. Some pricey lambs.

I can tell you have very little surround experience;

Know where you went wrong,

"You can also have better vocal clarity than any center channel speaker can provide you."

I'm sorry, you're just plain wrong. Even the physics is against you on this one. And this extra clarity is not at the expense of a uniform deep soundstage, just incase you were wondering.

It appeared also that you trying to tell us what we can use for a center channel? I suppose I MUST have a BIG TV in this system to satisfy your vision of this system too? You can't make me have one!:) If you burden us with what you think a surround system is, of course you would be correct about its sound quality. But I must say your imagination is not quite up to the task of outlining what you are missing, it certainly has nothing to do with things behind you as most would incorrectly assume. Although the rear channels are critical and must be on, they do so much more than just make noise in the back....much much more.

Just so you know; any speaker designated as a "center channel" should not be used in a music surround system if it can be helped...there are some exceptions to this rule but just a few.

Two channel is the sonic degradation, but I know the masses of musicophile's opinions are overwhelmingly on your side.....for just a little while longer. But keep an open mind, "cause times they are a changin'" :)

213cobra - Thanks for the response. It's funny you say that a $10k MC system is "nothin'". Even funnier that you say a 10K 2channel system is "dramatically goes up in quality." Care to elaberate?

What about the performance of the systems. No, the names of the manufactors don't even compare!!! I will say you are 200% correct. But what about the performance of the system? I've notice the majority of "audiophiles" do a lot of name dropping, which is "nothin'". Who cares about what brand name you have, isn't it supposed to be about performance anyway?

And your right...few do have the know how to bring the best out of MC mixes. What are you implying by this? If more engineers had a clue as how to use the format better....? What are you not saying by this comment?

I really love multichannel, and have set up my system for it. Dynaudio Temptations for the mains, Dynaudio Evidence center and C4-s for surrounds. The player was an EMM Labs CDSD/Dac6e until recently. Now it's an Esoteric X01 limtied. The v=center and rears go through a Theta Casablance courtesy of a Theta 6-shooter. Having said that, the problem is that there isn't much well-recorded music that I like. Yes, movies are spectacular (a retractable screen is a necessity), but that wasn't the point of the room. One of the few is the recent Ray Charles. When you go from MC to 2 channel, the sound just seems to collapse. It is also worth noting thast the acoustics of a 2-channel room is different than for an MC setup. I use diffusers rather than absorbers at the first reflection point as well as in the back, and room has very lively, dynamic sound.

David Shapiro

Hey David if you're interested in getting the most out of your system on two channel CD's drop me an email and I can help you setup your system playback to enhance your 2 channel discs to the same degree multi channel discs play.

There's a free upgrade hidden in your system.

email me you number and let start using it.

Cdwallace,

One has to be definitive to be heard in these debates. So I take a clear position which also corrseponds to what I believe, advise and have experienced.

Look, it doesn't matter what has been posited academically or by research labs regarding the psycho-acoustics of MC -- no system made available to date has been anything close to convincing. But more to the point, they have been destructive of tone, corrosive to holistic representation of sound, and any damaging to realism in spatial presentation.

But let's put even those flaws aside for a moment. $10,000! What compromise must you make in quality of power amplifiers and speakers to spread much of that money over 5.1 or 7.1 channels, instead of 2? I can promise you it is a vast qualitative difference in gear, and no amount of processing makes up for it. In fact, the processing exacerbates it.

That budget is much too low to be able to match in 5.1 channels the tonal, spatial, musical and emotional fidelity that can be attained in 2. Moreover, very few rooms can intelligently accommodate more than 2 channels. I've been through, in detail, the promise of matrixed and discrete 4 channel; DTS; Dolby Surround; SACD Surround, etc., etc., etc. For $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, $40,000 and probably beyond, I can always pull together a system in which 2 channel reproduction will be more convincing.

I've heard the 20.2 system under development at USC with Tom Holman's participation. It was fascinating but not encouraging. High Fideltiy in music is not being achieved by maximizing the number of drivers. It cannot, at least today, be achieved by software correction for all the physical errors introduced by many imperfectly-matched drivers attempting to do the same thing. It is not being attained by discrete approximations of absorbed, reflected and reverberant energy. All of these attempts are sucking life and tone from musical sound. But even if you don't agree, surely you grasp that you can afford much better fundamental-performance speakers if you're only buying 2 on a capped budget, rather than 5. Surely you can agree that much better sounding amplification is available if you're buying only 2 channels of it. If you're buying at Best Buy, perhaps not. Let's assume you're buying elsewhere.

I have no argument with someone who likes MC for its gimmicks and novelties. Whatever entertains you! But if you want the highest possible music fidelity, communication of emotion, and tone, then 2 channels are your optimum solution at your stated price, and well above.

Phil