Talon-New owner-NO customer service

Tnadu,

Let me ask you a question. At what point does a manufacturer "draw the line" especially when dealing with with products that are sold by second and third parties? I would be much more sympathetic to Robyatt if he had been the orginal purchaser of the Talon Roc and had bought it from Talon through one of it's authorized dealers. If that had been the case, then Rives should have more responsive in their responds to him. The big problems start coming up when products get sold over the Internet by second and third parties, and unauthorized dealers and then something happens to that product. Apparently, you feel that manufacturer should "bend over backwards" to take care of the problem. And the truth is Rives offered to take care of the problem for $1600. If that what it cost to replace the amp, then that's the cost to replace the amp. To expect Talon/Rives to go the "extra mile" for the second owner is unrealistic because let's face it, neither Talon or Rives made any money on that second sale. More and more you're starting to see disclaimers from manufacturers about products sold over the Internet and through unauthorized dealers and second and third parties. Don't believe me, starting visiting some of their websites.

I guess we need to clean up some issues here. First, we bought the assetts to Talon Audio Technologies. The transaction was similar to a bankruptcy sale, in that we did only buy the assetts. Thus technically all speakers made prior to our purchase of the company do not have the company behind it that warranted it. Now, does that mean we would abandon loyal Talon customers--absolutely not. The fact is with speakers unless they are abused failure and warranty repair is very rare. The plate amps are the only thing that we have had any calls on (other than one pair of Hawks that was literaly dropped by Fed-X--what a debacle that was).

To answer the original question about the plate amp: The original plate amp on the ROC was okay, not great. We have found a much better amp, but it's a different size. In order to make it useable for an existing ROC owner we either have to custom make a box for it, or get the ROC sent back in and rework the cabinet to accomodate the new amp. At the price we quoted $1600 we make almost nothing, but I recognized it's not a great value. The customer is paying for cabinet rework which doesn't lead to superior performance. Thus we just ordered one of the new Crown XTI amps and are in the process of testing it. These amps retail for $1000 and may be better than the plate amp we found. We make nothing on the customer buying a Crown amp, they can buy it from many sources. Our company concern is to provide customer service, look for viable solutions for the customer, even if that solution is for them to buy an amplifier from a source other than our own.

In the end, we absolutely want to service prior Talon owners, even second owners, but we can't be financially liable for their repairs or the new Talon will be out of business. We intend to keep the company financially strong and around for many years to come. We will continue product development and will be showing a new speaker at CES. We invite anyone at CES to come visit us there.

Tnadu:
Your remarks (with my compliments) are as clear and level headed as any of the responses. You raise cogent and valid points. As you have addressed me, please allow me to further clarify the position I was trying to take.

With Rives now having chimed in with his own perspective, perhaps the view to all will become more clear.

First, I do believe that the used market has risks. I think that if one looks around him, it can be observed that most used markets have risks (as well as potential benefits). As such, I believe that some of my remarks are simply a review of market reality. Let me phrase this more clearly: The best time for a potential buyer to investigate the service level that he can expect from a manufacturer is BEFORE he makes the purchase.

I can understand why my words could be have construed to be defending Rives as a business entity. That was NOT my point. My point was in response to what I percieved of Robyatt's original post. What I observed was an AG member with very minimal forum activity choosing not to communicate with the forum in calm language asking for "what do I do next", but rather communicating with the forum in the manner of a direct FLAME. His message may have been very valid to pass along to the forum, but the style of the message in addressing the forum regarding another member might have been more carefully directed. As Rives has been a long-time contributor to this forum, it seems only appropriate to me to bring to the attention of the readers of this thread the long term positive contributions that he has made. As you yourself said, 'action speaks louder than words'. I believe that is is appropriate to consider ALL of the actions.

That was my intended point.

Thank-you Rives for clearing up an issue that was a matter of concern to me. Being a Talon owner, I needed to see a response that still kept us Talon owners "in the fold" of the new business plan, ie: warranty and warranty issues...8^)

The response from Rives clears up the big question, namely, the $1600 repair cost (much of which is labor to rework the cabinet). This makes sense. The remaining question is if it's possible for someone (other than Talon/Rives)to provide / replace the buzzing transformer (or whatever) in the amp. Is the company still in business? How is their reputation for repairS? Who are they?

As someone who bought his Talons new, I am glad to hear that Rives will service them at a reasonable price for either me or whomever I sell them to.

I am a little mystified by the concern many companies have about product sold over the internet or by unauthorized dealers. How did the product get into the hands of the unauthorized dealer? If it wasn't stolen or extorted, and isn't counterfeit, they should be obligated to stand behind it. It should not be up to the consumer to have to verify that a dealer is authorized. Do you check with DeWalt to see if Home Depot is an authorized dealer before you buy a saw? The manufacturer made it, sold it, made their money, and agreed to provide warranty. How have they suffered a loss that justifies weasling out of warranty obligations? If their loss is due to loss of image because someone is turning their product from an exclusive boutique product into a commodity, I can understand that. In this case, the manufacturer should just shut off the dealer who is violating the marketing plan. Every major audio component is serialized, and the company should know who they sent each unit to. If they keep wholesaling their product to dealers who discount it, they have no right to complain.

While manufacturers have a legal right to do what's in their financial interests, so do we. We should continually publicize manufacturers who have bad attitudes toward second owners. This should drive the used price of their products downward, which will hopefully dissuade new buyers from buying their products. If companies that are openly hostile to the used market, like Theta, hear enough people say their product is great, but can't stand the depreciation when they go to sell it, maybe they will change. On the other hand, companies that treat 2d owners well (like AtmaSphere)should be rewarded with high used market prices, to encourage people to buy new without fear of losing everything.