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Acapella vs. Avantgarde

I currently run a Cary CD-306, Cary SLP-05 preamp, and Cary 805AE monoblocks with a pair of ProAc D38's (see system). The combination is sweet and involving, but the combo just does not boogie when asked to play a large orchestral piece, by Mahler/Wagner/Shostakovich. When the volume is turned up, dynamics are poor and the system starts to sound compressed. I suspect that the 50W Cary's simply does not have enough guts to drive the ProAc's, so I am considering replacing them with a more efficient speaker. Since most SET afficionadoes love horns, this led me to look into Avantgarde and Acapella.

I live in Melbourne, Australia. Avantgarde is available through a dealer here, but he does not have any in stock. The Acapella dealer is in Sydney (a plane flight away). I am looking to spend A$30,000 - which will buy a nice Avantgarde Duo, or a secondhand Acapella High Violon.

I have read plenty about the dynamics of the Avantgardes, but my concern is if they have horn coloration. Also, how do they image? Are they sensitive to room placement?

Would the Acapella High Violon's be a better buy, considering the pair I can potentially get my hands on have been heavily discounted? I have read that Acapella's suffer from disjointed sound because of the three different driver technologies (plasma tweeter, horn mids, conventional woofer). How much is this a problem? And are there any room placement issues? Given that the Acapella's have lower sensitivity (91 dB/W/m) would I be achieving a real upgrade by moving from the ProAc's?
amfibius
docsavage
109 posts
 
I own a set of Acapella High Campaniles and can tell you that that I have never felt as if the sound was in any way disjointed. I have owned several speakers which did have problems melding different technologies but not Acapella.
OTOH they require power. I am not sure if 50 watts will do it. I would suggest an audition with your amps if possible.
Room placement is highly dependent on room size and acoustics but Acapella is not a difficult speaker to set up.
triode
263 posts
 
I'm a longtime Avantgarde Duo owner (now upgraded to 108dB Duo Omegas) and can assure you that 50WPC is a great deal more than enough (my 18 watt Lamms are more than sufficient, power-wise, and I used to run 8WPC amps without power issues). The speakers are very directive, which eases setup in that wall/floor/ceiling reflections which plague cone speakers are not an issue, and if set up properly the driver integration is fine (the symptoms Billspecofc alludes to above are the result of improper adjustable crossover and/or level settings on the active subs; no such problems here). I hear no "shouty" horn coloration. For proper driver integration, you shoud sit at least 12 feet away (the speakers would then be 10 feet apart, toed in as Whart alludes to above). You'll be rewarded with (to my ears) the most lifelike power delivery and expressive ease you've ever known. I'm not personally familiar with the Acapellas, though it sounds as if their significantly lower efficiency may rob them of some of the specific virtues of horns.
markxiii
109 posts
 
I agree with Docsavage. My experience with the Acapellas (High Violons) is that although they can be driven even by 20 - 30 watt SETs, they need a minimum of 80 - 100 watts to really come to life. If you don't feed them with enough current, they will sound dynamically anemic and the bass will be rather soft and weak. With the right amp, however, these are some of the most life-like sounding speakers I have ever heard. The three different drivers blend seamlessly, it's really amazing. The midrange and the top end is absolutely to die for.
The Duos in many respects are similar to the Acapellas (particularly the life-like midrange presence and microdynamics), but they can't match the Acapellas' plasma tweeter refinement and ability to retrieve the smallest nuances. They are difficult to set up and if things are not right, there will be quite a noticable discontinuity between the midrange and the bass. This can be mitigated (if not completely eliminated) with careful positioning and the right crossover and gain selection on the powered woofers. Using third party subs can bring significant improvements too (for example the TBI Magellan VIII subs are so fast that they can match the speed of the midrange horn).

Both speakers are great, but the Violons are overall a much better speaker.
As for your Cary 805C's, I'm afraid they would not be a particularly good choice for either speaker: not quite enough power for the Acapellas, and too soft in the bass for the Duos.
whart's avatar
whart
1,930 posts
 
As regards the woofers, and integration on the Duos, I have had to fool around with this because, out of the box, I was not pleased. The horns, once broken in, sound very open and alive, but the woofer had two apparent shortcomings- (1)it simply sounded 'different' than the horns, without the same 'air' and tonality-- a matching problem, if you will and (2) while I could get some serious dbs going on dynamics, the bass just didn't have the same impact as a real live music situation in areas such as kickdrum. My reference here is a little rock, blues and folk club down the street from my house- as I've mentioned before, go into a place like this, even when the band is just getting ready and listen to the WHACK of the kickdrum. THen, try to tell yourself that your hi-fi is lifelike. The dynamics of this are incredible and may just not be reproduceable, at least on vinyl. (I spent my share of time hanging out in studios, too, and yes, those big efficient monitors can give you that kind of 'thwack' with power, but everything over them sounds 'amped up' and hyperbright- not real).
So, where am I at on this now- the blend/match is much better, partly due to amp change (Lamm 18 watt SET) and cables K-S Emotion, including the power cords on the Duo woofers. The bass has depth, air and tonality, and coheres more with the rest of the range. The dynamic THWACK- sounds very good, but still not real at lifelike levels, to my ears. But, so far, I'm not sure I've ever heard a hi-fi do that.
tvad
9,467 posts
 
I have heard Acapellas at a couple of shows, and I have heard the Avantgarde Trios at the home of a local audiophile. Both systems were comprised of absolutely platinum level electronics and front end gear. I did not care for the Avantgarde sound although I can appreciate why others would. It was a bit too harsh for my taste.

On the other hand, Acapellas have always sounded beautifully natural and seamlessly integrated. I could easily see owning Acapellas if my penurious nature would allow it.
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