Building a system and need some imput on speakers

ps...if you're still using mini utopias and sub, i don't think any of the speakers mentioned are a step up any ladder.

I realize that you think you're going to save money by not going out and auditioning some speakers, but I think that's exactly what you need to do. Speaker choice is a very personal thing, as speakers that one person loves might be irritating to you.

I'd advise you to go to local dealers and listen to different speakers just to get some sense of the differences. Take CD's with you so that you can listen to your own material. And keep in mind that the speaker-room interaction and the speaker placement can make a big difference. (And to a lesser extent, the amp-speaker match.)

I know that's not specifically answering your question, but in the long run I think you'll be much happier (and have more money in your wallet) if you shop around and find the speaker that you really like and keep it for some time, rather than being disappointed with other people's suggestions and on a perpetual cycle of buying and selling.

Michael

Take your time and listen to as many speakers as you can. I have not listened to the speakers you identified. But there are numerous speakers out there that are extremely competitive.

For example, the Dali Helicon 400MK2 is well within your budget as a new purchase.

You also need to look at the entire system as a whole with amp, preamp, source, dedicated electrical lines in mind with your loudspeakers.

All speakers have compromises and it is very difficult to use other people's opinions once you get to the level where the obvious faults are taken care of. We will not even be able to agree on what is important for something to sound like "real music". This means that most of the advice you get is along the "I have XXX and I like it".

My idea of natural sound doesn't get delivered from box speakers, but I am not sure whether you like dipoles at all.

I love my Quad 2805s, but if your pop/rock interests means that you like playing really loud then they will not be for you. In that case I would suggest the excellent Linkwitz Orion (www.linkwitzlab.com), which I auditioned before buying the Quads. They are also great value (your budget including the 12-channel amp) and pretty spouse-friendly since it is smallish and have a large variation in looks.

Selection of speakers is probably the most critical decision in setting up any system. There are so many variables it's incredible -- and I wouldn't rely on anyone here, or anything other than your own ears. $8-9 large is alot of money and a bad decision can be a very costly error. Also, Lapierre's remarks about building a system are right on. A good system will be worth more than the sum of its parts.

This may be heresy on Audiogon, but in my opinion, unless you really really know what you're doing, I think that a system you put together with a good dealer, new, is likely to be more musically satisfying than one made by putting together a selection of very nice "top rated" pieces. The latter is a crap shoot -- and the house usually wins (yikes, where did that come from?!).

New doesn't necessarily mean full retail either, btw. You can usually do a little better -- but dollar for dollar, within your budget . . . especially when you're starting from scratch and new to equipment at a high price range . . . you're better off with a dealer. It's your money, not mine, 'just saying what I'd do.

There are many many good speakers in the $8-9K price range. All of that said, my personal favorite around your price range is the Quad ESL-2805, but all speakers have compromises of one sort or another and the trick is to select speakers that, in the context of a coherent system, compromise in a way that's best to you. (e-mail me if you'd like the name of my dealer, who has never steered me wrong. If I mentioned his name here I might sound like a shill, please which believe me I am not.)

Audiogon definitely has a place, mind you. I buy and sell here. But I wouldn't put together a whole system here, based on the advice of others -- as you'll see, the advice will be all over the place. Hope this helps.