How do I "compromise" speaker placement

Bob, let's not get into that 83dB stuff again. We'll NEVER agree on that, but you're having fun with it and are welcome your concept.

As for measuring your way to proper setup, I was thinking of tape-measure, not SPL. Indeed, SPL can help, but only after you've optimized as best you can with Master Set and still want to further tame a node, either with traps or active EQ (attenuation only) such as Rives.

You've got to get the speaker working together coherantly and minimize intermodulation distortion. Once you've done that, then tweaking with room treatment or EQ can get you even flatter. Intermodualtion distortion is often heard as glare and loudness. When it's controlled, then you can actually listen several dB higher without fatigue. Said another way, 83dB with intermodulation distortion sounds louder and more fatiguing than 88dB without intermodulation distortion.

So, I say, address this first. Moving the speakers a fraction of an inch can make a big difference in perceived sound.

Dave

Hi Dave, Have you ever done an in room response of you room?
The ultimate answer to this issue is bass traps. The last approach is EQ after all room treatment is exhausted by either aesthetic reasons, AAF (audiophile acceptance factor, we can't blame it all on "the wife")or WAF.

As far as IM distortion, "how it sounds", freq extensions etc. that is all up to the system and its owner desires. I believe the better the in room response becomes (and you dont need to hire a "Master Set" as you can do this yourself with REW) the better. Even the worst speakers deserve this. You paid for the speaker, why not get all you can from them, whether you like the speakers or your equipment is "good enough" is another story. A tape measure tells you nothing, except that speakers should be (obviously) set within the room and seating position within a "1/4 inch" or some such.

Moving your speakers 1/4 inch can make a big difference in sound, and this can be measured.
Bob

I agree with Bob;

1) Common sense - use rule of thumb configurations
2) Perform in room measurememts
3) Listen and decide what works best for you (usually a compromise is needed anyway as there is no "perfect position" for all aspects of the sound)

Why are measurements so useful - because it is very hard to be objective in listening tests and the most exciting engaging position may actually be the worst in terms of accuracy and ultimate musical clarity/enjoyment...the old boom boom tizz setup that most people fall for....impressive...wow I can really hear the bass...and the highs are scintillating ....sure but it is not musical cause you just downplayed the most important element the midrange...

Bob, you can get the EQ "right" at any listening position, but if you left the IM distortion in then it'll sound like CRAP, no matter what speaker you use. Go to any audio show and you'll hear it in room after room. (Harsh, edgy, grating sound from really good components).

Like you said, "You paid for the speaker, why not get all you can from them?". Until you minimize IM distortion you can't enjoy your system to the max, no matter how flat the EQ. My method is set the speakers first, for the best combination of low IM Distortion and minimal bass nodes, then start addressing any problems that remain with room treatments and/or active EQ.

Dave

Hi Newbee said, "BTW, if you do this, buy some graph paper and keep careful notes of your set up distances - it can get a little complex trying to keep all of these in your head, as it will also give you some visual clues about what you can change, cannot change, and whether its lspeakers or listening position that is causing the issues you like or dislike.'

I say, just download the Room EQ Wizard for FREE and you dont need graph paper just click and save the measurements. Also 1/3 octave test tones are not enough, you need much finer measurements than that to really see what is going on in your room.

Hi Dave, you said "Until you minimize IM distortion you can't enjoy your system to the max, no matter how flat the EQ. My method is set the speakers first, for the best combination of low IM Distortion and minimal bass nodes, then start addressing any problems that remain with room treatments and/or active EQ."

I know what IM distortion is, but what are you talking about? How are you adressing IM distortion with your speakers placement? Or are you talking about IM distortion in equipment?

Bob