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Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?

Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
tvad
9,467 posts
 
One or two observations. The Focal Micro Utopia Be are 89dB with a 3 ohm minimum impedance (8 ohm nominal). As such, they require an amplifier that doubles output into 4 ohms, which neither your Redwine 30.2 or SET amp do, the result being frequency imbalance that emphasizes the mids and top end and under emphasizes the bass.

The Stereophile review states the speaker "can be unforgiving of bright material". Frankly, I believe your problem starts here, and your amplifier mismatch exacerbates the problem.

You might look at a Pass Labs XA-30.5 amplifier. Phenomenal Class A solid state amp that doubles power into 4 ohms. The rest of your equipment is up to the task, it seems to me.

Otherwise, other speakers may be in order...but if you intend to keep the amps, then the speakers ideally need to be more sensitive (95dB+), and they need to have a flat impedance curve that doesn't dip below 8 ohms (maybe 6 ohms at the outside). Coincident, Devore, Audiokinesis, Merlin are a few alternatives.
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Well, that added information is useful for sure. You're more sensitive than most of us AND you have speakers known to be "unforgiving".

I'm really worried that you're talking about listening levels of 95dB and reaching your limit at 110dB. If that's at the listening position, then those are extremely high levels. I probably average from the mid to high 80dB range at my listening seat, with peaks in the 90dB range and only touching over 100dB on peaks of very dynamic music. With your listening room, those should be practical levels. You seem to have a SPL meter. If you don't, then I think that you should buy one and use it at your listening position.

Before you spend money on amp and speaker changes, consider getting someone to do a Sumiko Speaker Set in your room. It'll remove an incredible amount of grain and harshness.

One last note, do you have much ambient noise in your listening room? For serious listening I typically turn off the AC, make sure the dishwasher and washing machine isn't running. Keeping ambient noise low allows lowering listening position SPLs. In Colorado it's much easier to turn off the AC than when I lived in Texas, but it's something to seriously consider.

Dave
racamuti's avatar
racamuti
257 posts
 
One of the best tweets in the bussiness are on the Sequerra Met7 MK VII monitors. Pair them up with a good sub and they will rock. Also I noticed that you want stand mounted as apposed to floor standers, why? A small speaker will breakup sooner than a large one given the same quality. I have never listened to the equipment you own but maybe the synergy between them tilts the tone upward, just a thought.
pubul57
3,712 posts
 
As I was reading Tvad's response before getting to the end, I was thinking Pass XA-30.5; I think his reasoning with regards to the amp/speaker matchup makes a lot of sense regarding the pushed quality of the higher frequencies, a loss of balance can do that, and made worse at high levels.
shadorne's avatar
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shadorne
7,333 posts
 
The Stereophile review states the speaker "can be unforgiving of bright material". Frankly, I believe your problem starts here,

At the SPL levels the poster mentions a speaker this size is laughable. Thermal compression and Xmax limitations will make for a terrible sound - completely wrong speaker for the requirements. Not to mention all the problems I listed above with a rigid metal tweeter....

Soundstage stop their second set of measurements at 95 db SPL at 2 meters for a very good reason - if they went up to 103 db spl the results would be so sobering that many audiophiles would complain to their manufacturers and dealers...
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