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Harshness in tweeters: the price of transparency?

Hi,

I can't help notice a correlation between ultimate tweeter transparency and having to put up with harshness at loud volume levels. It can be very transparent and smooth to an appreciable volume, bit exceed that and it will go harsh if you apply the materials necessary for max transparency in those drivers.

I owned titanium dome tweeters in Avalon Eclipse speakers that ultimately caused me a case of a decade-long bout with tinnitus from the titanium dome tweeters, even when using a smooth Music Reference RM-9 tube amp.

I then owned a pair of horns with lightweight metal compression driver diaphragms. Again, unbearable harshness at loud levels where the metal "breaks up".

I now own a pair of beryllium dome tweeeters in speakers that again are volume limited before that metallic glare and harshness comes in. When I had silk domes none of that happened to me, but the details and transparency are markedly down for those drivers at all volumes.

The most transparent drivers I heard were the best tweeter horns but at the cost of harshness. They exceeded electrostatics for dynamics and transparency and detail, but at that cost. Electrostatics seem to me to be the best compromise in midrange on up detail and smoothness but with a real decline in dynamics.

Maybe diamond is the answer with its extreme rigidity and hardness. But I'm not rich enough for that yet, and probably never will be.

What's the scoop on the best tweeters out there for all of what I'm asking for here, but at a reasonable price? One possibility that intrigues me is the ceramic tweeter, but again, I don't know and those are not cheap either.

I want to play horns and cymbals loud and clear, without that bite in my ear. Soft domes aren't enough for me, at least not the ones I've heard after hearing horns and beryllium.
ktstrain
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
I'm just afraid that Kurt has already damaged his hearing; therefore, I think that he should focus on improving his ambient noise level such that he can enjoyable listen at lower volumes. Yes, he needs speakers and amps that won't distort at 100dB, but he needs to be listening at an average level below 90dB and maybe more like 85dB.

With proper placement and a really transparent, non-distorting system, I think that he can get there.

Dave
tvad
9,467 posts
 
I'm one for letting each person decide for himself how loudly he wants to listen.

Personally, I find it hard to enjoy some music at 85dB, whereas other music is fine at that level.

AC/DC at 85dB just doesn't cut it.
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Huh, what'd you say???
ktstrain OP
15 posts
 
Dcstep

What you say is true that my hearing is already damaged. The kind of damage that makes me look for that optimum clean loudness level. I have some tinnitus still in me although much better than before and is ignorable in high ambient noise. But I can't hear all that well in low ambient noise and low speaker volume conditions due to that incessant noise in my head. So I need to crank it up appropriately.

Then soon comes the other half of the problem. It distorts by playing too loud and then it starts to irritate me via hyperacusis symptoms, a lowering of my discomfort level to not as loud sound. When I had AER front loaded horns I was in a good place. Not irritating to me at loud volumes and could play well over my tinnitus level clearly. Then I went to compression horn drivers for clarity. They were clearer although not capable of high SPL's without that 6 KHz ringing hardness. The paper cone was a soft distortion and the compression horns were a hard distortion.

I probably ought to think about reverting back to those AER Oris horns again, but I hate to go backward. It will lose a lot but gain in comfort and listenable dynamic range.

Kurt
dcstep
1,518 posts
 
Kurt said:

"I probably ought to think about reverting back to those AER Oris horns again, but I hate to go backward. It will lose a lot but gain in comfort and listenable dynamic range."

Kurt, my friend, I have empathy, but I've never experienced you problems myself, so I can't answer from experience; however, I can't help but think that gaining in comfort and listenable dynamic range would be paramount in a situation like yours. I wouldn't think of that as a step "backwards", but rather a confirmation that your experiment with the new speakers failed. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh? There's no sin in a failed experiment unless you refuse to acknowledge the failure and learn from the experience.

Good luck finding a solution.

Dave
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