speakers for classical music

Shadorne, from my minor experience. . . JRDG 7M delivering max 170A peak ad damping factor of 170 is borderline for controlling bass drivers of Vienna Mahlers. At 1000, JRDG 501s and 312 seem just about right. . . Nuforce at 4000 is perhaps overdampening them.

My point is that you can't control them any further than having an amp with 0 output impedance (although you can go negative but that is another story).

Damping of 4 is equivalent to output impedance of 2 Ohms whilst 40 is equivalent to 0.2 ohms whilst 400 is equivalent to 0.02 whilst 4000 damping is like 0.002....so the difference is very small as all the last three are basically pretty much all a short. So the natural mechanical/electrical damping of the voice coil and mechanical suspension + air suspension will really begin to dominate as you go above 40 damping from the amp.

However, what you observed means it still has an audible effect which suggests the speaker design is probably underdamped.

HI Dave,
there is an issue with volume in the bass with the smaller Maggies, but not to the point where they are that compromised. But the quality of the bass and the pluses like the open midrange, treble extension, inner detail and naturalness for classical music would be very tempting.

I do take your point about dynamic potential. A good amp can help that to a point, but for sure a frustration in their design along with size.

The problem of knowing a budget becomes so important. But I guess as the 803 is mentioned we are talking about $2500. You would get a hell of a pair of headphones for that!

Chadeffect said:
"...about $2500. You would get a hell of a pair of headphones for that!"

Absolutely, agreed.

Davd

Shadorne is right about 'damping', and in fact its more profound then that- once damping factor exceeds about 20:1 or so, there is no improvement gained. 'Damping factor' is a bit of a misnomer, as it assumes more about the load being inductive than it being an electromechanical device which is powered by the amplifier to any excursion, complete with its own suspension. In the case mentioned, its likely that its not a damping factor issue at all, more likely that there is a problem with the floor, resonance in the front end or something like that. IOW, 'damping factor' is the complex explanation where there are also a number of simpler explanations.

Dcstep, I appreciate that you have not found the right tube amp and so you have had to look at transistors. That does not say however that tubes cannot do the job- even for you- all it does say is that you've not seen that yet. What is important to get here is that the match between the amp and the speaker is critical. The idea that you go with a certain speaker and then find an amp for it is common, but weak. Here's why:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/papers/paradigm_paper2.html

If you use a tube amp with the wrong kind of speaker, you will never hear what that tube amp can do. In the case of the CARs, they are designed for tube amps and if you put a transistor amp on them you won't hear what the speaker will do. I had this pointed out to me in spades when a solid state competitor showed at T.H.E. Show 2 doors down from me with the exact same CARs in his room.

Any time a Voltage paradigm device is used with a Power paradigm device, you will get a tonal anomaly. This is not a conversation about tubes vs transistors BTW. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Atmasphere said:

"Dcstep, I appreciate that you have not found the right tube amp and so you have had to look at transistors. That does not say however that tubes cannot do the job- even for you- all it does say is that you've not seen that yet."

Getting OT here but:

Why would I look for a tube amp, as you imply??? They have nothing to offer. I've never excluded them from my listening (in fact my first amp was tube and my current headphone amp is tube), but I've never heard anything superior that could be attributed to tubes. I simply listen and choose based on how the amp makes the speakers sound.

What's a CAR and why should I care?

Dave