speakers for classical music

Dcstep, your goals and mine look identical on paper. We are thinking the same way there, but went about it differently. I use tubes *because* I can get them to be more neutral, detailed and relaxed; I'm not looking for coloration. On my speakers, you can't get most transistor amps to make good bass, and its easy to demonstrate how profound that difference is (my amps are full power to 1 Hz, unusual in a tube amp).

Like you, I trust my ears first :)

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The 115db peaks of the orchestra would be in the first 10 rows or so if you are in the center. So this is from the listening position.

Although this thread is about speakers, the match between the amp and the speaker is paramount. You do have to pay attention to the intention of the speaker designer to know what kind of amp is going to work with the speaker. Its not always intuitive! For example, horns are traditionally in the realm of tubes, but when I started seeing how the newer Avangarde crossovers were designed, it was obvious to me long before I found out that the speakers were intended for transistors only. In the case of the Trios, there is no tube amp that will sound really right on the speaker, solely on account of the impedance curve.

BTW, Nelson Pass has a good article, published about 2 1/2 years ago in Audio Express, about how full range drivers interact with 'current source' (high impedance, usually tube) amplifiers. He works with solid state of course, and began building high impedance 'current source' amplifiers. The First Watt amps are an example of that.

Yes Atmashphere, I do think that we have the same end goals and I also suspect that we're both doing very well at achieving them while on different paths. Perhaps you've seen my Virtual System and realize that I've got a relatively small space that is a constraining parameter of my current system. (I don't really feel constrained by my end result, but you always think that you can do more with "more").

In 2009 I expect to move to a home with a larger, dedicated listening space with free rein in the WAF department. I've said before in other threads, I'll be considering horns at that time. I'll also so be revisiting the best of Vienna Acoustics, Sonus Faber and a few others. It's been a long, long time since I've heard a good horn setup and I'll be certainly find some.

BTW friend, will you be at the RMAF this year? I'd love to buy you a beer, coffee or tea and pick your brain more. That should be a good weekend. That little show is really growing up.

Dave

Atma notes above

20db BTW is a 100:1 difference in power.

by which cryptic remark, he means: it takes one HUNDRED TIMES the power to yield an increase of 20dB in spl. (Btw 20dB in spl is 10x louder.)

This went unnoticed; how many low sensitivity spkrs can actually produce 20dB dynamic contrast starting from an audible minimum level? Answer: very few if any. Just do the math, the drivers will quick the bucket.

So for beauty, choose dynamic spkrs; for concert dynamics, it's only horns.

Interesting responses. Narrowing the field a little. Not interested in horns, electrostats, personal (vs established company) designs etc. Speaker must sound good for both 105 db orchestral and 70 db chamber. Not interested in opinions from those who think that the speaker wire has an effect (other than the awg) or that biwiring has an effect. size of room subject to vary. budget not a driving force - but large increases in cost for small change in quality is not sought after.

Just go with the B&W just not the 803. I think the best model are the 805, 802 and 800.