Verity Parsifal or Magico V3 or Wilson Benesch ACT

Well Dhaan, I agree that goosebumps can be gotten on specific recordings with specific gear, yes this is indeed true. The first time I remember hearing it was with a Single ended triode driving hi efficiency Swan speakers many years ago and was duly impressed. Understand mind you that this was with specific midrangy jazz and vocal recordings. Such a system would make one gravitate towards certain types of music to the exclusion of others since the sound can be so intoxicating.

I probably wasn't clear enough in that a system that can consistently stimulate this reaction with a variety of recordings and different music for a sustained period is what I was referring to. Recordings I am familiar with that I brought and not necessarily good recordings so much as great performances. I was speaking specifically of a system in a specific room that was seemingly doing everything right which is to say recreating the natural dynamics, timbre and subtle nuances that I hadn't ever heard before to this degree making the performance more believable, not a single-ended triode system for sure. It wasn't a matter of sound anymore, more the performance. This was with the Verity Parsifals and while I noted similar characteristics with the other Verity models the systems and rooms could not produce this same emotional response. Moon in the 7th sun Jupiter aligning with Mars....etc. Actually the room had non parallel walls and was larger than most of the others which probably helped quite a bit.

Marty when it comes to loudspeakers I am quite dismissive of the majority of them, especially most large systems. They always seems to do something wrong in their quest to overwhelm you with sound often missing the nuances that separate good sound from drawing one into the musical performance, maybe their interaction with rooms too small comes into play to a greater degree?

Actually I went to the show to hear the Merlin's with this particular system which was substituted with the Parsifals just prior to the show. Interestingly enough not everyone heard what I did which goes to show that while I may be convicted that my opinion is greater than everyone else that didn't hear it my way, maybe in reality it is that I was prejudiced because I primarily went to the show to hear a particular system. Actually there were numerous folks that did hear what I did not excluding some of the Verity folks.

Marty, your “ it is the room” solution to the problem of incompetent loudspeaker design simply does not cut it. If you are designing a speaker with a particular room in mind, how would it works in other rooms. And if your room has problems, do you fix it by introducing even more problem in the speaker? So is wrong on wrong makes right? You can always treat a room, move to a different one or build one, but you can never take a 10db boost at 80Hz, or a shelved mids and flatten it. No room will correct a disasters XO integration. You can never take out the THD these design have either. Not to mention so many other flaws that simply show a lack of basic loudspeaker engendering knowledge. If you had any idea of what it is that you are doing, you will have absolutely no reason to desing a speaker like that. Sorry, but you always going to listen to your music through a pretty dirty filter. No matter what room you are in.

Dhaan,

Speakers sound different - in tonal balance - in different environments and at different spls. A speaker that is absolutely perfect at high spl in a small volume room will be imperfect at either lower spls or in a larger room. Sorry, but this is true.

Room gain below 150hz will typically range from a few db to 15db, with larger rooms tending to provide less as the speakers are moved further from the boundaries. Response anomalies from reflective surfaces above 1khz are utterly impossible to predict. A speaker like the Wilson - which to many people (including, evidently, you and me) - sounds overblown in the bass area, will sound less overblown when moved further from room boundaries. Ironically, this will make the anechoic measurements more useful, though - to me - still of very limited value. I am not suggesting that this will "cure" the Wilsons. I was merely wondering how they sound in a very large space and speculating that they will likely sound better than in the smaller spaces I've previously heard them.

My point is that 2 wrongs ABSOLUTELY make a right. If every room was identical - and had the identical single anomaly (let's say a 10db rise at 100hz) - then a speaker that is 10db down at 100hz WILL sound more natural tonally! I am not suggesting that you should design for this only because every room is not identical. My point in the first place!

Sorry, but it is impossible to judge the tonal balance of a speaker in anything but the context of a specific room.

BTW, this discussion is strictly limited to tonal balance as it grew from your contention that the Verity has an obviously skewed tonal balance. It has nothing to do with THD. Or many, many other performance parameters which may make or break a speaker in the opinion of any given listener.

Marty

But Marty, it is all related. The suck out in the Verity FR is due to a very poor integration between the drivers. It has nothing to do with “voicing” or room integration issues. It is simply very poor XO design.

Once again,

Indeed, the Verity may have a thousand problems due to its poor design (or it may not). I have not commented either way. You heard an obvious tonal balance problem with the Parsifal. I know of no-one else who has. I merely suggested that tonal balance is not a function of a speaker, but of a speaker in a specific room and that, in the vast majority of rooms, the Verity's anechoic suck-out is either barely audible or completely inaudible. I made the statement based on my own 10 years of experience, the experience of many, many hobbyist listeners who have heard the speaker in my home(s), a survey of print reviews, and a survey of on-line reviews (including the one you linked to).

I noted that this qualifies you as an outlier in this regard and that there are many possible explanations for this - including the possibilty that your judgement has been colored by your knowledge of the speaker's design and anechoic performance. I do not believe that I have made any other claim and, if I have, it was certainly unintentional.

With that, I think I've said what I have to say.
Best luck with your on-going efforts.

Marty

And to clarify my comment re: Wilson, I was merely speculating and I believe I made that quite clear in the post.