Who OWNS Zu Audio Speakers- Especially Definition

Hi Wilsynet:

I borrowed a friends very expensive Rotel DSP + 7 channel 100W class-d amp. It's an ICE implementation, probably as good as any, and quite similar to Virtue.

I was surprised at how close the Rotel implementation was to my little sonic-impact 30W. At usual listening levels I don't think there was a thing to choose between them. The speakers and the room have a FAR greater impact to the sound in my implementation, and that is also where the benefits will come to my system in its current stage.

The Rotel also has its own DAC. I don't know what it is, it may be similar to the TI Burr Brown that lives in my little Headroom Headphone amp that I have been using as an external DAC.

Internal vs External DAC made a difference. The Rotel DAC vs little headphone amp DAC did not in my opinion. Of the difference was so small it was vastly overwhelmed by problems I have in my room.

I think if I am to make a material difference to my sound with a new amp, it would need to be a tube amp of some sort as the distortion that that adds is very real. I don't think that a 15W class d vs a 100W class d (volume aside) or any different DAC will solve any of the problems I hear in my system. They may be different, but not "better" as they are not solutions to the problems.

Adding a subwoofer made a material difference. Spent a good long while yesterday crawling around on my hands and knees to place it.

I think all you've shown is that the Rotel AVR is no better than the little Sonic Impact T-Amp that you have, which is quite frankly not at all surprising.

I think most of the two channel people here (that's almost everyone right?) will tell you that the vast majority of 2-channel systems will embarrass an equivalently priced home theatre set up when reproducing 2 channel music.

My previous statement was that DAC + amplifier combos (HT AVR qualifies) are generally not very good. A reasonable point of view may be that you've just demonstrated that.

Wilsynet: I am surprised! Maybe I was naive thinking that a $50 2-channel amp would be noticeably inferior to a $2000 amp.

I think if I asked the group: which will sound better:
1) Sonic Impact + headphone DAC = $150
2) Rotel DSP + Rotel amp = $3000

They would say (2). Again, maybe I am wrong. We're comparing a $150 d-class amp with separate DAC/preamp to a $3000 d-class amp with separate (more expensive) DAC/preamp.

I think you are right though that a using just 2 out of a 7 channel amp, even if they are discrete, is not optimal, although now I am very very curious to compare it to a 2 channel ICE design. I would love to understand why running 2 channels out of a 7 channel amp (discrete) is different from running a 2 channel amp. If they are discrete it should be the same, right?

James_Edward---receive your speaks?

I misunderstood, thought it was an AVR, not separates.

Having said that, it doesn't change my opinion by all that much. The Sonic Impact is a T-Amp, and I think the T-Amps punch way above their weight assuming you pair them with appropriately efficient speakers.

It may be an overly simplistic way to look at it, but take a 7 channel amp for $3K as you say, divide 3K by 7, and you're paying $428 per channel. Add to that the inevitable compromises you get from trying to jam all of those channels into a single box, and the simpler 2-channel amplifier starts to catch up. An over simplification for sure, but there's some merit to it.

To my ears, the AudioSector DAC for $425 (which I once owned) is more musical, more dynamic, and more natural than the twice as expensive Nuforce AVP 16 (which I also owned), which I am guessing in turn is the sonic equal of the heavily feature laden Rotel RSP-1069 (I have not heard or owned). Having said that, there are plenty of reasonably affordable outboard 2-channel DACs out there that should, in my judgement, better the Rotel without trying too hard.

As for amplifier, when I upgraded from my KingRex T-Amp to the Red Wine Audio 30.2 integrated, it was a revelatory experience. My Zu Druids thank for me for the superb pairing.

I don't know if it's in your budget, but if it was in your budget, I'd try a RWA 30.2 on 30 day in-home, risk free audition, and if you still don't think it makes a difference, then be thankful that you saved yourself a bunch of money. If you're looking for lower priced amplifier suggestions, send me a private message and I'll throw in some other recommendations.

Enough chatter from me, I'm sure you're tired of the back and forth. =)