Well, aldavis was working and unable to respond. 24 hours in a hospital over Thanksgiving makes me grumpy so I will try to repond as kindly as possible. Instead of "guessing" I actually measured the response in my room in which I also measured Rel stadium, Jl 113 and 112, Martin Logan depth. This is obviously not an anechoic measurement but it did allow me to compare output "head to head" and have a relatively informed opinion on the subject. Of these the 113 goes the lowest. Now, with regard to price, as I stated, I didn't buy the Torus because of it. That said QUALITATIVELY to me it was clearly the best and this quality costs money. You could cheaply produce a sub with a lower f3 but would this make it "better". The higher you crossover the more quality matters. If you set the lowpass filter to roll off at 34 HZ(-3db) like me the difference is negligable. The torus is for a niche market - rich people obssesed with tonal accuracy who do not listen to a lot of organ music or synthesized bass lines which dominate the music. I object to people who state as a fact what they can not possibly know - anothers intentions. If you would like to check out a more " unbiased" source check out the AVS thread on Torus + Magico minis. One of the participants uses an RTA to measure the output with and without the Torus. The results are shown on the screen. No company b.s. no reviewer b.s. and no aldavis b.s. just the facts. I haven't seen it in over a year and don't remember the exact results. I'm too tired to look it up now. Peace - jim