are subwoofers anti-audiophile?

Here is why I decided to loose the sub I had in my system. I found I lost both midrange and highs causing my system to sound less intmate and natural are more impressive for a short listen.

Every time I turned off the sub I immediately hated the loss of bass impact and quickly turned it back on.

Well I recently decided to let my ears endure a longer time period with the sub off and my music collection came to life with better imaging and much more midrange and highs detail.

The music was more involving and less impressive.

My sub was carefully set up to only play 40 htz and below. The volume was set very, very low as to not make the use of it apparent

I found that a sub will/can rob some life and transparancy from my system. I owned an SVS PB12 Plus 2.

This is my recent experience with a sub.

My main speakers are Silverline Bolero rated down to the mid 30's.

I believe there are many listeners that prefer an excess of bass. I like to indulge at times myself. However, when I listen to the Phoenix Symphony live, or jazz concerts at the center for the arts I do not hear/feel that excess bass subwoofers provide. Perhaps, the subwoofer user wants to show off how much thump he has and the levels are set too high.

In a small room, there is definitely a placement advantage versus full range speakers. My secondary system utilizes a separate woofer. I would not label it as a subwoofer since response is into the thirties not the teens or twenties.

Certain recordings and music are deliberately made for an enhanced bottom end, and the true subwoofer can make the experience more satisfying. This may also be true for comparison to a live rock concert which I don't attend. I've used several different subs in my main system and usually find I prefer the sound without the sub turned on. I have since sold the last one and don't miss it at all.

One issue is philosophical. There is a retro/zen subgroup of 'philes that swear by "simplest signal path" and simplest circuitry (often retro tech). Subs don't fit this POV and high tech subs with DRC run 180 degrees contrary. I suspect that this also limits their popularity in the 'phile community

Marty

No--some systems are truly full range without subs others are not despite what their owners may think and can benefit from the added info in the lower bass--I xover my stats at 50hz and the increase in dynamics --soundstaging far out weights any negatives--my subs run in stereo and are just inside my speakers to maintain phase --I think the problem has been finding really good subs that will integrate well and become seemless----understanding that one can still have an outstanding system without subs and not being totally full range. All personal preference.

Grannyrig, No sub has a brick wall filter causing it stop producing sound at an end point like 40hz. I don't know your sub well but it likely either has a 12 or 24db/octave filter. The cutoff frequency is usually - 3db. Add to this ALL sytems have driver/ room interactions which (particularly below 250 hz) can be the MAIN determinant of the sound. Subs can bring this out in spades if not set up properly. Even with a 12db/octave filter I can't imagine a 40hz cutoff frequency affecting the " midrange" (250hz) at which point it would be >30db down UNLESS : 1)The volume on the sub was too high 2) There are serious room interaction problems (most likely) or 3)there is a problem with the sub. If you have measured the frequency as flat ( + /- 3db or so) from 25hz and up then my only answer would be 3) above. If it is not then it is 1) or 2) imho. Phase, relative driver distances , quarter wavelength cancellations all can affect sound. Integration can be very frustrating and it will likely not be perfect but it is almost always worth it with dynamic (box) speakers. - Jim