Rock: well recorded bass...60s/70s

Sorry for my sometimes "tone", Ghosthouse. When I use a work like "stinks" to characterize the quality of, say, a Group/Band's playing, it is done in a very literal sense. In other words, it means they play poorly, objectively. That does not necessarily make their music worthless, it is said only to make a point such as, that to play like Cream, a Band's members MUST possess a certain degree of technical ability to make the music work. If a Band/Group plays within it's capability level, they won't "stink" at it.

I went to a Vintage Drum Show (I deal in them) at which Jeff Hamilton (Diana Krall's drummer) did a Q & A session. He talked about seeing the infamous first Ed Sullivan appearance of The Beatles, and laughing at Ringo's lack of technique. Though much younger than Ringo, Jeff had learned the drum rudiments (the equivalent of scales in tuned instruments), which Ringo's playing revealed he had not (he still hasn't. McCartney still doesn't read musical notation, requiring the services of a musician who does to notate his "Classical" compositions). I bristled when Jeff said it, but that may have been because of his smug tone.

I wonder if Jeff and Elvis Costello (Diana's husband) have talked about Ringo, whose playing Elvis loves. See, technically advanced players (Jazz being a music requiring the "chops" to perform well) consider drummers with that ability by definition "better" than those who without it. My question to Jeff, had I asked one, would have been: "Do you think The Beatles music would have been 'better' if they had a drummer with more technical ability than Ringo? Does that ability alone automatically guarantee that music created by such a musician will be superior to that of one possessing less of it? I'm sure his answer would have been a qualified yes.

Oh, here's something some may find interesting: The piano part in the middle of "Layla" was composed and played by drummer Jim Gordon. Jim was a 1st call session drummer in L.A. whom George Harrison had brought over to England, to play on his first 3-LP album. Eric met him, and asked him to join D & TD, which he obviously did.

Jim was a relatively young, straight (studio musician's have to be "together" to keep getting recording dates) guy, but he took to the drug environment of D & TD quickly. Unfortunately, that resulted in his undiagnosed schizophrenia leading him to kill his mother with a hammer (the voices in his head told him to). I absolutely adored Jim's playing (he was really, Really, REALLY good, in a musical sense), and have managed to acquire one of his Camco drumsets!

One last note on a related matter, that of a musician's "taste". When a musician has attained a certain level of technical proficiency, he will (hopefully) come to realize that technique is of value only in the service of playing what that musician thinks will be a good musical part; a means to an end, not the end itself. Some musicians never have that realization, and their playing tends to be viewed as "vulgar" by more musically-minded musicians (such as Jim Gordon, who was very musical, though also possessing a high degree of technique). Along with that, the "tone" a musician is able to produce out of his instrument is determined by the musician's taste.

You would think that tone is a subjective matter, but you would be surprised by how much agreement there is on the question of the quality of tone some musician's are known for. For instance, Ry Cooder's tone is universally considered unsurpassed amongst electric guitarists. Not to be insulting, but the guy in Blue Cheer's tone was about as bad as it gets (really "cheesy"). It might also surprise you, but the assessment of a musician's taste in playing is also not as subjective amongst musician's as it is amongst civilians (;-). The caveat is that a musician has to have acquired a sufficient degree of taste to be able to recognize it in another. Ry Cooder is universally acknowledged in that regard as well. Again, the guy in Blue Cheer (sorry Ghosthouse, nothing personal!) was considered extremely vulgar.

Amongst drummers, Jim Gordon is universally considered amongst the all-time greats, with as good a sounding instrument (drums and cymbals) as I have ever heard. On the other end of the spectrum, Carmine Appice (Vanilla Fudge, Rod Stewart) is certainly as vulgar a drummer as I can imagine. That the appreciation of another musician's taste is determined by he doing the appreciating, consider that Eric Clapton asked Jim to be his drummer, and would NEVER have asked Carmine, Clapton's got taste!

Jeff Beck formed a band with Carmine Appice. So does Beck got no taste?

Bdp: I have no issue with your tone but I think technical proficiency has to be mixed with soul or something that conveys emotion. Maybe less of an issue with drummers since I tend to like good jazz drummers playing rock better than a lot of rock drummers. ( though I like Ringo on the early stuff). Some of those old blues guys convey with what I assume are pretty rudimentary skills. Tone and skill: add David Lindley to the list. Leslie West, who was not as technically proficient as a lot of guitarists could get amazing tone and emotion. Don't know where Chris Whitley fits on the skill-o-meter, but listen to Dirt Floor. His voice and guitar playing give me goosebumps. I get the difference between musicians' musicians and less skilled players. Unfortunately there are so many hugely talented players that are unknown. When we heard Little Richard a few years ago in Manhattan he had one of the best bands- with some of the best individual players- I ever heard. They were not credited on the bill or even on his tour website. I saw the show with somebody who is a pretty famous and skilled multi instrumentalist - his words; "those guys were hired killers."