Help me understand tonearm/cartridge compatibility, please!


Hi everyone,

Once again I'm seeking to educate myself on turntable set-up issues with the help your vast experience.  I only recently came to understand the importance of cartridge loading, and I think I have a decent handle on that.  However, I have been having issues with some new cartridges that I've tried, and my guess is that it is due to cartridge compliance, something I don't have a full grasp of yet.  The following results have held with two different phono stages:

I have a Marantz TT-15s1.  It comes with a tonearm designed by Clearaudio for Marantz and a Clearaudio Virtuoso cartridge.  After I broke the stylus no on the cart I decided to explore some other carts.  I have gotten a wide variety of results, and I am guessing that compliance is the issue.  The Clearaudio cart that comes with the table has a compliance of 15.  

1.  Denon DL 103r (compliance 5)- very thin sound, almost like someone turned down the bass and turned up the treble on a tone control.   

2.  Denon DL 110 (compliance 8)- excellent sound at very moderate volumes - deep sound stage, clear vocals, quick transients.  However, raising the volume to even average levels results in significant high frequency distortion, enough to make things unlistenable. 

3.  Grado Reference Sonata 1 (compliance 20) - this seems to work fine, without distortion.  Frankly, I like the sound of the DL 110 better, but the distortion has let me to stick with the Grado.

So, I am assuming that the compliance of the two Denons is too low for my tonearm and that I should stick to a cart closer to 15+?  

Any thoughts would be appreciated.  Thanks, and happy holidays!
Scott 
smrex13
Scott,

Have you tried adjusting the VTA?

You can check on compliance using the calculator on the Audio Engine website. You will need some information on your arm and cartridge, and that may also be available on their website.

Also as mentioned by cleeds, if you have a phono preamp built in you may be overloading the phono stage.

Smrex13,

This looks like a regular turntable to me, and line out is designed to plug into a phono stage?  If this is incorrect, please enlighten us.

I think there are a couple of things going on here. Compliance might be a factor, but judging from your results I think break in might be the main issue. There's a mechanical aspect and you have to get it going so to speak. Break in can take many tedious hours although you get rewarded as the cart settles in and you can hear how it changes. You might have to change settings as it matures, especially arm height (VTA/SRA).

I don't know the effective mass of your arm, is it carbon fiber?  Assuming it's a decent match with the Virtuoso I would guess at least on the low side of med mass.  The 103(r) likes heavier arms, but the compliance is confusing.  Many Japanese manufacturers rate compliance at 100Hz.  The standard for calculation purposes is 10Hz. So you wind up with apples and oranges.

Your Virtuoso has a 10Hz cu (compliance) of 15, but it's 100Hz cu is 6.5. The 103 is 5 at 100Hz and about 12 at 10Hz.  I forget exactly what the 110 cu is, but I think it comes out to around 16cu at 10Hz.  That's the most surprising result.  It could be due to insufficient break in and I hate to say it, but some people load it down somewhat. This is changing phono input resistance to a lower value, in this case between 1K and 20Kohms, or whatever sounds best.

If you go to the Vinyl Engine database you'll find compliance arm mass calculators. There are instructions and all cu figures must be at 10Hz. BTW, you can replace and upgrade the stylus on your Virtuoso. Go to LpGear and look at their house brand stylus. Get the AT95 upgrade model of your choosing (VL or SA recommended), trim the plastic to match your Clearaudio and pop it in.

Regards,



No phono stage built in to the Naim, nor is there a phono amp built in to the Marantz.  I have looked everywhere for specs on the tonearm that comes with the Marantz, to no avail.  One review called it a Clearaudio Satisfy Tonearm, but that tonearm costs more than the entire Marantz package (table, arm, and $800 cart), so I don't think that's accurate.  

I believe I had the loading right for the Denon 103R, but maybe not...

Scot
Hi Scott,

Would I be correct in assuming that you have been running the DL-110, which is rated at 1.6 mv output under the standard test conditions, into the MM input of the Heed, and that you’ve set the Vincent to MM mode when using it with the DL-110? If not, the added gain resulting from using the phono stages in LOMC mode with the DL-110 could very conceivably account for the distortion you’ve described. Especially given the high sensitivity (= a low sensitivity number, 150 mv in this case) of your Naim integrated amp.

Best regards,
-- Al

Thanks for all your suggestions.  In response to the questions and comments..

1.  Yes, I was using the MM input for both the Heed and the Vincent with the DL-110.  Through the same configurations the Grado with an output of 5.0 mV (vs. 1.6mv for the DL-110) does not distort.   

2.  It's not a case of break-in for the cartridges because the problem is significant distortion.  I should have mentioned that the DL-103 also distorts at higher volumes, but it sounds terrible at every level.    

3.  I have done some tweaking with the arm height, but I'm fairly new to turntable set up.  I have a GeoDisc and a digital stylus force gauge, so I know I'm fairly accurate on those parameters.

Right now I have the Sonata on the 'table which sounds pretty good, but I really preferred the sound of the DL-110, so I'd like to figure out how to make that one work.  

Thanks, Scott