Great multichannel amps do not cut it in stereo

"I can not imagine multichannel separates being much better, as these had been extensively compared to the AVR600, with most indicating a close to on-par performance. "

Well, then 1) you need to expand your imagination, and 2) the AVR600 is quite good (when it isn't broken), for a one box solution, but compared to good AV separates - well, no.

I cuurently have a Marantz 8802a, along with a Theta Intrepid, and / or a Bryston 9BST, and a AVR600 couldn't touch this combo in any manner, shape or form, and, when playing in 2 channel (using Tansparent Super XLR's from the Oppo 105 to the Marantz (and, of course to amp), please tell me how bad it sounds.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Yes and no.  I've owned a "dedicated stereo system" in many guises - stereo receivers, integrated amps, separates, and mono blocks.  The keys to evaluating a multi-channel amplifier vs. a dedicated stereo one are multitude.

If you have a auditorium-sized listening space and/or if you listen at rock concert levels and/or if your speakers are low-impedance/difficult-to-drive, then one is unlikely to get equivalent stereo out of a multi-channel device of most varieties.

If, however, like me, you have a more modest room, listen at more modest levels, and have relatively sensitive and easy-to-drive speakers, then I would suspect that you can get very good audio from a well-made and good-sounding multi channel source.  In fact, you could get so close that in one of those mythical double-blind tests, I'd suspect that you couldn't really tell a difference.

This is pure heresy to high-end audiophiles, I know.  We're invested heavily in the idea that consumer-grade audio is somehow inferior and can never rise to the lofty accuracy of our carriage-trade gear.

But the world has changed, and many of us don't yet realize it.  Even the most cost-driven AVRs on the market know that they have to compete in the sound quality arena, or they won't sell.  And when a company the size of Yamaha or Denon gets a sound-quality hit in a major magazine review, it gets their attention.

No, your $399 entry-level AVR won't now (and never will) compete with your Mark Levinson or even your McIntosh, but the entry level sounds better now than they've ever sounded before.  And the improvements don't stop at the entry level, either.

"Midrange" brands like Rotel, Arcam, Emotiva, and others now provide a greater percentage of "cost no object" sound than they ever have.  And that sound quality improvement spills over into AV gear too.

So I'd contend that SOME multi-channel amps, used within their power envelopes, with appropriate speakers DO rival the mono block or stereo-only amp sounds.  Of course, this is my opinion, and you're always welcome to disagree.

Cheers - Boomzilla (moniker NOT indicative of listening preference)

sya... 

Some curious thoughts I have about this thread. Not a single mention that the AVR600 has a Class G Amplifier , 150 WPC & bi-wireable in 2 Channel. Did you ever utilize its Direct Stereo mode to eliminate any and all digital processing?

marcimzienski,
You are absolutely right. One way to be sure you have the right answer is when its proven in spite of whatever you may want to believe. That is how I can be quite certain you are right, and anyone who thinks home theater gear can ever touch stereo gear is simply wrong.

When my dream of a lifetime, a dedicated listening/home theater room came true I could hardly wait for the remodel to be finished to start shopping for all the great home theater components. Which I of course did by following all the accepted wisdom of THX home theater 5.1 surround sound yada yada. I say yada yada now but back then it was Gospel.

Unfortunately for the surround sound setup I had this nasty habit of going and listening to everything I was even halfway interested in. Immediately every single thing I tried that was home theater oriented sounded like crap compared to every single thing that was not. Including an awful lot of very high end multi-channel components that cost far more than I'd ever even consider spending.

Not just receivers, which you never really expect will sound all that good anyway. But separates too, even down to separate pre-amps and amps. I was so determined to get a good sounding surround system I even tried some separate surround processors. I tried everything.

Sorry, but it is all crap. Like, the good stereo gear is so much better than the good surround gear its not even close. Its in your face obvious. Surround is the apex and the epitome of Robert Harley's famous saying that if the first watt isn't any good why would you want 200 more of them? Surround is crap.

In hindsight this all makes total sense. For whatever budget you may have, does not matter, the fact is you take that budget and divide by two and get a lot bigger number than when you divide by 5. More money per channel simply equals more quality per channel.

But that's not all! It turns out one of the hardest things to do in high end is provide good clean steady power while keeping the noise from one thing getting into and ruining the sound from another. This is as true within a component as between components. This is why every good component, and especially higher end more critical components like phono-stages, go to extreme lengths to isolate their power supplies from the other sensitive circuits. The physical demands of surround systems here are quite simply obviously incompatible with high quality. Where less is more they try to tell you more is more. Its not.

But wait! It gets even worse! Because, bottom line, people listening to stereo are ..... listening to stereo. And that is ALL they are doing. They aren't distracted by looking at anything else. They don't have a projector fan blowing overhead or a screen flickering in their face. They aren't trying to follow a plot and they usually aren't munching on popcorn either. Often times they turn the lights way down or even off to concentrate on the sound and the sound alone.

So why in a profit driven business would you ever devote all your resources to delivering perfect sound to customers who despite whatever they might say clearly have voted with their wallets to put video above audio? You'd have to be crazy.

Which they are not. Which ultimately is why no surround system can touch a good stereo. And never will.