Cheater plug safety


So I recently decided to swap out my subwoofer amp for another one I had to see if it worked better with the driver. It did, but I have run into a slight problem. My old sub amplifier had a captive two prong cord. The new one has a 3 prong cord.

The subwoofer amp resides on a different AC circuit than the rest of the system. (Can’t be avoided)

Although the new amp is an upgrade for the sub, there seems to be a ground issue that is hazing up my transparency and sound stage. The system looses some air when the sub amps ground isn't lifted. There is no hum problem through any speaker per se, but just an overall sonic degradation when the ground is left in place. Using a cheater plug just on the sub amp brings back The transparency and it sounds absolutely beautiful.

I read that this can be dangerous, though. (Then why are these created plugs made?) anyway, I also read that as long as the amplifier with lifted ground is connected to the rest of the system via interconnect , and the other components are grounded, then the amp will use the ground from the other circuit that the other equipment is connected to and you are "safe", and only some very unlikely happenings, such as an internal ac wire becoming loose and touching the chassis and standing in a puddle of water should cause a concern. I even had a parasound 750 amp in my college dorm that even suggested using a cheater plug if needed for hum, sooooooo.........

At any rate I am addicted to the sound at the moment and going back without the cheater plug just sounds dull and fuzzy. The system is resolving and shows just about anything you do to it. Mind you, it’s not a night and day difference that would say that there is something wrong with any of the equipment, just a subtle but very tangible improvement that I definitely like and desire. The equipment is working 100% properly.....

It sounds so much better than the old amp and the transparency and air I’m getting right now are rediculous, but I don’t want to get shocked, but the chances seem to be very slim. Can anyone advise?
audiolover718
Thanks!

I guess I am asking is there anything really to worry about leaving it well enough alone?
That amp has been around since the late 1950s. I would not worry about it.

The concern is usually about what happens if the power switch takes a whack and gets shorted to the chassis. The fuse should blow. But the kind of switch on a Stereo 70 is really really hard to damage in that sort of a way!

jetter said:

In order to make my Dynaco st70 safe to use, I would need to have a three prong plug attached? Easy to have done, but just asking if that is the solution?

Not sure if this is the schematic wiring diagram for your amp.

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Schematics/Dynaco-ST70-Tube-Amp-Schematic.htm

If it is you will notice the 120Vac power line side of the power transformer does not use a noise filter capacitor from either AC power line connected to the chassis. Given the age, if original not restored, to me that is a good thing from an electrical AC leakage to chassis standpoint. Why? Is the male plug on the end of the power cord polarized? Meaning it will only plug into the wall power receptacle outlet one way. If not you would have a 50/50 chance of having the noise capacitor fed from the HOT conductor from the wall outlet. If the capacitor was bad, leaking more AC to the metal chassis than it normally should, the chassis would be HOT with respect to earth ground. Depending on the condition of the old capacitor could/would have an impact on how much current could pass from the chassis through your body to a grounded object, your body might come into contact with.

It only takes a few milliamps for the body to feel the sensation of the current passing through the body. 4ma or 5ma you know you are definitely being shocked. 

So with no noise capacitor on the AC Line, that eliminates THAT possibility of a HOT chassis.

 The 3 wire power cord and grounding type plug would be the safest way to go. But like Ralph said, doing so could create noise problems and possible ground loop hum. You would be safe, but your audio system could sound like crap.

As I posted in an earlier  post, GFCI protection will also protect from a lethal electrical shock. Note I said lethal. A GFCI trips open, (is supposed to), when it senses a hot to ground current flow around 5ma to 6ma.

//

Speaking of noise... Have you ever measured the AC voltage potential from the metal chassis of the amp to the wall receptacle safety equipment ground contact? If not, you should check it.

First the ICs from the preamp need to be disconnected from the amp. The chassis of the amp can not be connected to any earth ground.

* Turn on the amp.

* Measure the voltage from the amp chassis to the equipment ground contact of the wall receptacle. Note the voltage reading.

* Turn off the amp. Reverse the AC power plug  in the wall receptacle.

* Next. You might want to wait about 5 minutes for the electrolytic caps in the power supply to bleed  off before turning the amp back on. Turn on the amp and check the voltage from the chassis of the amp to the wall receptacle equipment ground contact again.

* The lower of the two voltage reading is the correct polarity orientation for the plug. Mark the side of the plug that aligns on the same side as the neutral contact/neutral conductor of the wall receptacle.

What you are actually doing is connecting the AC power hot and neutral lines to the primary winding of the amp's power transformer for the proper polarity orientation. The lower of the two voltage reading can lower the noise floor of the amp and the overall sound from your audio system.

.

Only a qualified tech should attempt this, but it appears possible that the signal uses a floating ground and that the chassis and power supply ground are not bonded together. If this is true, then I would recommend:

  • Use standard 3 pin plug
  • Use shielded IEC cable. Most IEC cable is 3 conductor but not shielded. Connect shield at plug, not amp. Connect ground at both ends, of course.
  • Move switch and fuse to the same "hot" side of plug.
  • Bond chassis to AC safety ground.
You don’t want any voltage inside if either the switch or fuse is open. Having them on opposite sides of the incoming AC allows for the small possibility of one or the other opening, but still having 120VAC inside.

Best,


Erik
but it appears possible that the signal uses a floating ground and that the chassis and power supply ground are not bonded together.
Eric,

What power supply ground?

Equipment today that have a 2 wire power cord and polarized plug, that use double insulated AC power wiring, does not have an earth ground. In the world of this audio equipment the metal chassis and metal enclosure that houses the chassis is it’s ground for the power supply of the secondary and signal ground is all it knows. Am I wrong?

You don’t want any voltage inside if either the switch or fuse is open. Having them on opposite sides of the incoming AC allows for the small possibility of one or the other opening, but still having 120VAC inside.

Agree.

That could be a possible problem, IF.....

Jim

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my sunfire sig has only  the  two prong plug, no ground plug.
 so putting a three prong adapter will essentially do nothing ? correct?

 also the house wiring from box to outlet is basic thin stuff, commercial wire.
 adding an expensive power cable will also do nothing. as if theres 300 feet of garbage wire, how do you expect to get better sound by adding another 4 foot of high quality wire? don't make sense, now if you wired your house with all 8 gauge to your dedicated 20 or 30 amp breakers, and used a good power cable, i can see an upgrade. other than that, its a waste of money