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Class "A" sound, as related to Stereophile.


It's all about the sound.

It's all about sound, not how much it cost; when I got into "high end", I knew right off the bat I couldn't afford it, but I had to find one thing for sure; how do the various components sound in regard to Stereophile's classes, or ratings? In order to know this; I had to acquire the ability to identify "Stereophile's" class "A" class "B" and class "C" sounds, and the only way to do that was: first, subscribe to Stereophile, and next was to go to every high end audio salon within driving distance; there were 5 well stocked "high end" salons within driving distance. (Since I didn't take my wife, that created some problems)

After a few years of subscribing to Stereophile, plus auditioning equipment that Stereophile recommended, I knew the sound of those recommendations, and I absolutely concurred with them; "If you want to hear the music, you got to pay the piper". While that's true, it's possible to get class "A" sound with class "B" bucks or less.

At this moment, I am looking at 8 capacitors that cost $25 dollars each, plus 2 mono blocks with an instant resale value of 6K. Once I take the covers off and go in with my soldering iron, these mono blocks are worth a resell of O; my mission must be a success. After a successful mission, the resell is still 0; but those mono blocks will deliver class "A" or "A"+ sound, and that's some sweet music.

I have to visualize and hear music in my head before I can modify a component to deliver class "A" sound; but that's the only way for me to get what has become a necessity.

The pressure someone is under when they modify, is great, but the rewards are glorious. On these mono blocks, they are too small for the huge capacitors, therefore I have to figure a way to make the case larger. My reward is "sound" with absolutely no relation to money. I often wander if someone with a fat bankroll can identify the sound, or only how much they paid for each piece.


Happy listening.

orpheus10
viridian's avatar
viridian
4,184 posts
 
Thanks O, no I'm not as handy as you, but so far, I am more comfortable with the higher order crossovers that you use. Maybe I'll get an invite to Dave's place some time and he can educate me on the virtues of first order crossovers. I'm always up for learning.

Another thing may come into play for me. I'm not really interested in imaging, or sound staging. More heresy, I know. I think that maximally phase coherent speakers preserve this information much better than higher order crossovers.

In the early 80s I had a pair of Spica. TC50s. They had the nice imaging of phase coherent speakers and seemed to have faster roll out of the drivers. But the Bessell crossover alignment never got much traction. I think that Dave Fokos (may be misspelled) did some nice speakers for cj as well as some under his own brand that used the alignment, but I really have not heard much about it since. There must be technical challenges with the alignment. I would love to hear from those more knowledgable about this....Dave...Al?

Let's keep those Carmen McRae recommendations coming!

dlcockrum's avatar
dlcockrum
2,105 posts
 
Hi viridian,

You are more than welcome to visit anytime you are in the Houston area. Seriously.

Never heard 1.5s, but I would imagine that the design was the best that could be done with the size and cost targets. I would never describe the sound of my 5i’s or the 2 2s I just sold to be slow. Not even close. These models were praised by almost everyone as having exceptional transient response and superior macro/micro dynamic performance

I am more of a fan of the Thiel 2 2, 3.5, 3.6, 5i era. Jim Thiel went to extremes to make the 1st-order crossovers work with these models IMO.

Indeed the 1st-order crossover is tough on drivers as the crossover allows them to see frequencies significantly outside of their stock design parameters. That’s why Jim took great care in driver selection and almost always used drivers modified to his specifications. Even the tweeters in the 2 2, 3.6, and 5i are custom made to Jim’s specs by Vifa to provide extraordinary excursion.

Jim published a white paper explaining it all very thoroughly. I can’t find a link to it on the web but I do have a hard copy. He used both a slanted & rounded baffle (the ones in my 5i’s are made of a heavy, inert marble/composite material) and carefully-engineered electrical circuits in the crossover to delay the signal exactly the right amount to ensure time and phase alignment between the drivers AT A SPECIFIED DISTANCE! of around 8 feet from baffle to listener. Thus, they do not work well in near-field environments. My 5i’s are 8 feet out from the wall to the front of the baffle, 8 feet apart from tweeter to tweeter, and 8 feet from my listening position, which is 8 feet from the wall behind me.

orpheus10, I can’t understand how the crossovers in your speakers could be modeled after the 1st-order Thiel crossover if they are 4th-order as you say?

Best to you both,
Dave
orpheus10 OP
5,988 posts
 

Viridian, as I recall, back in the day, Altec was one of my favorites along with Klipsch.


            http://www.klipsch.com/products/la-scala-ii-floorstanding-speaker



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs7YlqUSH1k


Enjoy the music.
orpheus10 OP
5,988 posts
 

Dave, I told the engineer I liked Thiel speakers; as I stated he was eccentric, after I picked out the drivers, he designed the crossover. As an example of his eccentricity; I told him I was going to change the value of a capacitor, and he told me he would crack my knuckles if I did; I left the capacitor alone.

If you know the design of a Thiel speaker crossover, you're quite a technician. I'm sure you could build your own speaker, just make sure you got a good cabinet maker lined up before you start.


Enjoy the music.
orpheus10 OP
5,988 posts
 

Dave, are there any capacitors that can replace "Black Gates"? Time is what has to be in the evaluation for the answer to that question. I replaced all my electrolytics with Black Gates a long time ago, and all those old components function like new.

I know Nichicon Gold might be comparable to Black Gates, the only question is time. Since they're all I know, I'll have to settle for them; also they're much cheaper.


Enjoy the music.
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