Class D Technology

BTW has anyone ever noticed a reviewer complain about phase shift when reviewing gear at a show? They can find all kinds of faults but seldom if ever that. Are they not listening right or is it just not there? Gotta wonder.....

You see them writing about it all the time. Don't look for them to use the expression 'phase shift' though. Look for them to talk about the soundstage, how deep and expansive it is. That's one indication (but not the only one).

The thing is, you can build an amplifier that only goes to 20KHz or so that can still sound pretty good (lots of SETs only go that high). The effects of phase shift are more subtle but they do exist. So you might be happy with what you have (which is good) but ultimately its all in comparison to what, and if you've not heard that 'what' then you just don't know how much better it can get. That's why many people listen to boom boxes. They just don't get how much better it can be.

Companies such as Devialet are creating hybrid AD Amplifiers. In theory, that could be the best of both worlds with sound & efficiency. Are the hybrid amps subject to the same issues with phase & bandwidth?  

Wading through this discussion, I found myself reminded of the late neurologist, Oliver Sacks. He was, as I’m sure you all know, hugely interested in music and how we experience it. He was an enthusiastic devotee of the music of Johann Sebastian Bach, and was pretty indifferent to the music of Beethoven. He volunteered for a brain-scan to see how he reacted to the music of each composer, and the results showed that Bach noticeably increased his brain’s activity, while Beethoven showed no such effect. http://mentalfloss.com/article/23288/inside-oliver-sackss-brain-he-listens-music

I mention this because what I’m taking away from this lively discourse (apart from the technical details which is mostly beyond me) is that we all have our innate preferences. A sound that lights one person’s candle might have no effect at all on another, and some of these sounds might be actively irritating to a few. Our ears and our brain-wiring are all different, so what appeals to one group of us won’t appeal to another. Hence our differing preferences for and reactions to various classes of amplification.

Personally (and I’ve alluded to this subject in my review of the Wyred4Sound reclocker, q.v.), as a professional musician, I like to be "inside" the music, that is, to be able to discern its details and building-blocks, but I still want the overall sound to be pleasing (musical) enough to be enjoyable. It’s a balancing act. As stated in my previous post in this thread, my ARC STi200 achieves this for me. It might not for you, though, which is fine. I’m not a tube-person, but I certainly can see (hear) why this sound appeals to so many of you. Would be very interesting to see what MY brain looks like on music.

atmasphere, I’ve pretty much heard it all , including Atmasphere amps.

phase shift is just one factor that might acount for an expansive soundstage. You can’t equate the two or infer a large soundstage necessarily means phase shift being heard. if its truly phase shift that is there and not being mentioned then the reviewers need to go back to school perhaps.

For example, my setup has expansive soundstage only on recordings made a certain way conducive to that. on others it is quite the opposite. So there is no evidence there of artificial effects of phase distortion that would persist constantly. Certainly nothing that I can hear with any of my speakers large or small. You might measure something but I doubt anyone could single it out listening.

Maybe young pups with 20-20khz hearing and speakers with awesome bandwidth, but frankly there is a good chance that other forms of noise and distortion are what’s mostly occurring at the highest frequencies for various reasons, phase shift being one of many nasty things that occur there predominantly. Very little music does. Mostly just "air" at 20khz.. See the reference here:

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.ht

So based on a combo of facts and experience I still see it as one of theoretical things that exist but do not add up to much if anything in practice for most.

So based on a combo of facts and experience I still see it as one of theoretical things that exist but do not add up to much if anything in practice for most.

Are you going to be producing an amplifier anytime soon?

If an amp cuts off at 20KHz then expect phase shift artifacts down to 2KHz. If an amp cuts off at 60KHz then its 6KHz. If the cutoff has a steep slope the artifacts can be more severe. The trick, if you can't get bandwidth the way you want, is to not have a severe rolloff.

You'd think this stuff is inaudible but it isn't. Many factors add up to how a given amp sounds and its plain foolish to attempt to focus on any one factor by holding it above others **or** below. They **all** affect the result.

So you are right in a sense. But I'll give you an example of how phase shift can manifest. Years ago a dealer brought an MFA Magus preamp to me with the complaint that it was really bright in the phono section. In fact I had heard this problem in the preamp myself. I put it on the bench and  found that in the RIAA equalization there was a circuit that caused the equalization to go to flat at 50KHz. This is a ways above human hearing. Normally the RIAA curve would be rolling off at 6db per octave.

So I took the circuit out, thus restoring the RIAA curve (FWIW the RIAA  did not spec the curve past 20KHz but it usually designers assume that it will continue with its 6db per octave rolloff as frequency goes up). The **very audible** brightness was eliminated! The dealer was thrilled, and MFA changed their production so that this circuit was omitted. Apparently they didn't like the brightness either, but had not made the phase shift connection. They said it was there to "improve square wave response". I'm sure it did that!

If your amp does not have lot of bandwidth then you are in the same boat as a lot of SET owners and they seem to like their amps just fine. The fact is that its not the most important thing in the world. But don't confuse that with it not being audible at all! In a class D amp, most of the artifact that its going to have is coming from the input circuit and in that regard whatever amplification it has (probably an opamp) which imposes its own signature. That's a lot better than the signature that many transistor amps impose; opamps if treated right can be pretty musical. If the bandwidth is limited then the amp might not seem very bright and a lot of audiophiles (myself amongst them) cringe when things get too bright. You like your amp a lot so if your hearing isn't too off than I have to assume that the designer chose a reasonable set of compromises in the design. I guarantee though that the designer would prefer to work with greater bandwidth if possible. When they come out with the latest greatest replacement for your amp (which will happen sooner or later), take a look at the bandwidth spec and see if they didn't improve on it.