Heard the B&W N804d3s ...

I have doen thousands of tests in audio. We always test each part on how much depth it can build. These are not parts based on personal preference, but based on real differences.

Denon is a 2 dimensional brand. This means it build less than 1 metre of stage depth. Even with the best speakers who are able to create stage depth.

It is very easy to compare and test. First you need to know the DNA of each single part of your system.


The paper low drivers of the 802N are extreemly slow compared to drivers of new loadspeakers. The crossovers are also very limited. The 20khz tweeter is also very limited based on technique compared to tweeters who are available these days.

Given the size of my room, 9x10x8, the 800N or 802D2 are way too big for the space. In the current line-up, I would have to look at either the 804 or 805.

I had a similar sized room with the much lesser B&W DM640’s. They worked well with a high current amp (Classe CA-150) but were very lean with other amps I tried. They were too hot for nearfield though and I upgraded to Vandersteen 3A (now Sigs) to cure that and loaded the room with treatments. It sounded OK at best. I did demo a sub and found sub 30 Hz could not be heard in the room but down the hall it was plain as day. Eventually I moved the system to a 3x larger room and placed the speakers at each end of the couch I sit on. Ideal? No way. But the speakers opened up and breathed life into the music in that larger space. There’s imaging but no soundstage so in a way it’s like headphones. I’m fine with that. The quality of the music makes the system sound so much better than the loss of soundstage. So here’s my take. The room is too small for full range speakers. A sub may help but not below 30 Hz. Maybe try a bigger room even if speaker placement is compromised. You could find out like I did that you're missing a lot more than you think.

@wlutke ... Thanks for the suggestion. I’m kind of stuck in this converted bedroom as all other available space is taken up. So, I will try the sub since the lowest FR of the N804s is 45Hz +/- 2dB, which is a bit lean even when compared to some monitors; the sub may fill in the deficient area. Since I listen to 2-channel only, and don’t do HT, FR from the sub at even 30Hz should do the trick. If that doesn’t work, I may just keep the sub and sell the N804s for a monitor speaker.

Timing is a key factor to the level of acoustic problems you can get in a room. When a loudspeaker has a faster response you will have less acoustic limitations.

B&W is not the fastest and their older series are even rather slow compared to most speakers today. A subwoofer can be a good option, but again you still need a sibwoofer with a fast response. Choose always for a  sealed subwoofer.

Even when a subwoofer has it's  own roomacoustic measurment system, it is still not in phase with the front loudspeaker.

You need a system what is able to measure both speakees and subwoofer togheter. In that situation you will always be able to outperfrom any loudspeaker system for the same money without a subwoofer.