Ancient AR Turntable with NO anti skate

stringreen,

I am guessing from you comments that you don't use antiskate?  When I removed the anitskate from my two tonearms, the sound changed.  It was very good, but I would have to really do a lot of comparing to state that it sounded better.  I can see though, given the difference in sound why some might decide to leave it off. 

My friend with the AR, said that in some literature from AR that they mention that the skating force changes throughout the play of the record which makes sense.  Given that it is impossible then to continually correct the skating force throughout the entire record they decided not to use it on their turntables.

I really hadn't thought of it that way, but after seeing how my stylus pulls to the center spindle with the skating force off, I just can't bring myself to leave the skating force off.

Remarkably, the old AR arm didn't respond like my Grace and SME.  It looked good when tracking.

Norman

pryso

In spite of such limitations, some older tables such as the AR-XA are still capable of providing a satisfying musical experience, just as you learned.

Excellent comment and I agree. 

Norman

Normansizemore 2-8-2017
I can see however that the stylus is gravitating to the center spindle and that can’t be good for the cartridge assembly.

Normansizemore 2-10-2017
I really hadn’t thought of it that way, but after seeing how my stylus pulls to the center spindle with the skating force off, I just can’t bring myself to leave the skating force off.

When little or no anti-skating force is applied the cantilever, as viewed head-on from the front of the cartridge, will appear to deflect toward the outside edge of a rotating record, reflecting the fact that the arm is gravitating toward the center spindle. Is that what you mean in the statements I’ve quoted?

BTW, IME, which has always been with cartridges having relatively high compliance, I have consistently observed such deflection to occur to a readily perceptible degree when anti-skating is altered as little as 15% or so, in either direction, from a setting that results in no perceptible deflection. While at the same time I can readily find a setting that results in no perceptible deflection **at any point on the record.** Which in turn would seem to negate the argument that anti-anti-skating advocates often cite (and that you referred to above as a reason AR did not provide for it on their turntables) that anti-skating is essentially worthless because skating force changes during the course of a record. And as I see it the fact that an effect may only be correctable to some approximation, perhaps even just a loose approximation, does not in itself provide a justification for ignoring the effect altogether.

Regards,
-- Al

And that is why designers use a spring or magnet for antiskate in many of the tonearms.  It is to vary the amount of the bias force as the arm gets closer to the spindle.  Saying we don't provide an antiskate mechanism because the skating force changes over the record is silly, IMO.

Al,

Yes, that is exactly what I meant.  I find that on my Dual 1229 / Grace 747 setup (Denon 103) that I too can easily find a place when adjusting the anti-skate where there is no perceptible deflection of the cantilever, but on my Garrard 301 / SME 3009 setup I can't.  This one is also using a Denon 103. 

I set my anti-skate by playing a blank clean record side (one of Stereophiles).  What I do is play the record and set the arm down after making a crude anti-skate adjustment.  Then depending on the direction of the arm I adjust the anti-skate to where at any point on the record I can raise and lower the arm without any pull inward or outward. 

When using the above method on the Garrard / SME setup, I am only able to get the anti-skate adjusted to where I can raise and lower the stylus near the center or middle of the playing surface.  Perhaps the SME needs a tune up?

Norman