Fidelity Research FR-64 vs. FR-54

Dear @lewm  : """ You are entitled to your listening preferences.... """

totally wrong, I'm not. I'm entitled to MUSIC, live MUSIC. My preferences has nothig to do on how live MUSIC sounds/flows. This is my main target.

""" but you are not entitled to create your own set of facts ... """

I don't have to do it but in reality I always did and do it. Problem for you and every one is that refuse to mimic in each one system my experiences.

You are a very good example of that: for years through the subwoofer thread I started and through emails to you I told you that your system needs ( this is a main necessity in evry audio system. Period. ) the integrattion of 2 self powered subs and you gave me several reasons why not. Your answers were very similar of the ones by my close friend Guillermo ( here in México. ) whom owns the big Soundlabs.  Today he is using a pair of subs in his systems and when he did it he told me: you had reason.

As you and many other audiophiles in this forum if the advise comes ( for first time. ) directly by Raul then refuse to do it and months or years latter many of them do it when that " advise " comes from other source but Raul.
Obviously that I don't care about. Losting the appreciated audio/music time is each one privilege.

With you happened the same with your second system when followed what Beveridge did or do on that subwoofer subject but they are not subs experts, are far away from there. So, what you did it about ( it does not matters what you can think. ) is just wrong. I already told you in the subs thread.

Now, on your audio/MUSIC " facts ":

Vacuum tubes – Advantages :

all those false/myth " facts " you learned through the real AHEE and I know that because I learned the same " facts " and that's why I used for some years an all tube audio system from Marantz through AR, CJ, AN ( Ongaku, between others. ) and many other items and I listened to almost all kind of tube designs including the ones you own. This is a real FACT.

Suddenly ( well not really suddenly. ) I started to learn and changed step by step to SS electronics till my system was all SS but something was not exactly as I wanted and that's why I started to think and take actions " out of the box " " out of what, as you, learned in that AHEE.

That's why I participated first hand in our Phonolinepreamp that I own and other lucky audiophiles.

This " unique " overall design experiences were and are my best audio/MUSIC lessons every where in the world and through those ( many years. ) true facts experiences I learned that all those advantages you name it are  in reality false and I give you some examples:

- negative feedback: this issue is not true in SS today good item designs. In ours exist no-negative feedback and works in pure class A, fully regulated input to output and fully diferential two. Our design in reality has 12 independent preamps channels.
Even today is absolutely unbeatable by any today units that are in the market.

I remember the first gentleman that ask me if we can manufacture for him our very first sample and we said yes, please gave us 6 months for you can have it in your system. History is that he had to waited 2 full years to receive it. Even he made the payment in advance through that time.
I think you already seen this chart that speaks by it self on what I posted here:


https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPJLuDhIxhHGsjv2ZABr3TIpxMewVor1Pz33vhLoiISsURJmmnxUQB9cuwNnpog...


that is chart of my Phonolinepreamp I have. Till today unbeatable and this is a fact.

That unit has a very wide frequency range from 0.01hz to 1.5Mhz making easy not to use global negative feedback. Btw, negative feedback is not wrong or bad per se all it depends where and how use it and the knowledge and skill levels of the designers.


- clipping: again, all depend on the quality of design. Today normally decent SS designs has no problem about. Has high headroom and high overload margines.

- wider dynamic range: realloy? how is that? because your hybrid unit can't not only even but be near of my unit in that regards and in any other ! ! !  and this is a fact.

- circuit design tends to be simpler: agree and that's why any one can design a tube unit and that's why exist the famous DIYS that does not exist with top SS designs. Yes is a lot more complex especially when the design is using bipolars devices as my unit or my monoblocks. Not all designers like to work with and prefer the easiest Fet/MOsfets.

- operation in class A and AB: well almost all top today SS electronics ( bipolars or not. ) are in pure class A and non-feedback.


Transistor disadvantages:


- 

• Tendency toward higher distortion than equivalent tubes: Really?

Is useless to continue analizing each one advantages/disadvantages you posted because almost all are false on SS today designs and the tube advantages you name it just does not exist: maybe 40-50 years ago but not today and this is a fact.

I remember many reliability times with different tube electronics and I will name it 2-3:

in one of my USA trips I was hosted by my dear friend @sbanks ( Spencer. ) for 2-3 days whom in those times owned exactly the tube electronics you own and the very first day that we ( some other Spencer's friends and now mine as Joe. ) were listened his system his touted by you OTLs ( one of them. ) just " blow-out ". Well goes down because a failure in two tubes and in front of me he called the designer and well you know what happens when that happens.

in other of my USA trips and in a over 300K price audio system ( speakers alone are in the 160K price range. ) happens the same with a tube top very top unit that when I saw the shipping double box to make the shipping ( I helped my friend to do it that same day. ) I knew at ounce where the money was because tubes and tube dsign can't justify more than 5K and this is incredible price for a tube unit. No, I don't care what tube designers can think about or the reasons they charge so much for their designs.

here in México and hearing a pair of Wilson speakers a top C&J top unit blow-out as the ones in Spencer's place.


I never experienced that so dramatic events with well designed SS electronics and certainly never with my units. When I experienced a reliability event in reality was not but a mistake from my part doing changes in the unit.

Btw, I made 3 USA trips showing my unit and learning on what other people listen to. In those times and maybe even today almost all the people that I meet there and that were my hostess ( great gentlemans for say the least. ) were not prepared for my SS Phonolinepreamp quality sound level performance. Almost all were using tube electronics but even this fact no one posted here or told me that my unit was or is a " trash " of design, including Lloyd Walker.

and we have to consider this: all of them listen to my unit in their system almost every time my fligth arrived to their places with out time to anything but listen it. Even in Denver with the snowing day in that hard condition my unit performed really fine.

@lewm , I'm some years ahead of you and some other audiophiles ( inclusive professional reviewers or equipment designers. ) and not because I'm so smart/intelligent or something like that but only because I finished the audio kinder-garden before some of you and that is my advantage between other critical audio subjects.

That's why @thekong insist that I prove what he just can't understand or the why people like @syntax always is joking/laughin of me: this gentleman as many other of his type are still in first kinder-garden grade and seems to me that he will die that way as some of his friends.

Things are the same in school: not all human beens finish the school grades at the same time.

@lewm , you have to hurry about because you has the intelligence to do it before many of the ones that posted in this thread. Every one with the rigth attitude and taking actions can not only even where I'm but can surpass me easily if they know what to do and do it starting today instead to posting critics or why I'm wrong.

There are many other interesting things to say but that will be for some other day. 


Regards and enjoy the MUSIC not DISTORTIONS,
R.

Hi Raul, basically you are just blowing your own horn and boosting about your own design, as always! Do you even have an idea what IEEE, as mentioned by Lewm, stands for?

Btw, I made 3 USA trips showing my unit and learning on what other people listen to. In those times and maybe even today almost all the people that I meet there and that were my hostess ( great gentlemans for say the least. ) were not prepared for my SS Phonolinepreamp quality sound level performance. Almost all were using tube electronics but even this fact no one posted here or told me that my unit was or is a " trash " of design, including Lloyd Walker.<

Maybe, unlike you, your hosts were just being polite, and not wanting to criticize your product in front of you. You were promoting / marketing your product during those trips, and if the hosts were so impressed with it, how come not too many of them ordered your product? How many units have you sold? I think the result just speaks for itself!

I clearly remember at least one highly respected member on this forum openly stated he preferred another design (tube!!!) to your unit!

You can always say you are ahead of others and your way is the right / best way, but then the result speaks it all!

Dear @thekong : I can't detect it due to that glorious so low distortions in my today system/room.

That also doesn’t make any sense at all!

-The airborne audio feedback to your turntables is a fact (or are you denying physics?)

- The airborne feedback would cause higher distortion to the sound than distortion from the electronics.

- In your system, the room and the speakers would have higher distortion than the electronics. You don't know because you have never measured the signal at your listening position and compared it to the signal from the output of the phono / CD.

- If your system is that “glorious so low distortions”, the airborne feedback distortion should just stick out like a sore thumb. How could you not detecting it?

- You can’t detect the airborne feedback distortion because either i) your ears are not as sensitive as you think, or ii) your room / system has such a high intrinsic distortion that it masked the airborne feedback distortion!

Dear @lewm : It's weird that you did not mention nothing about tube or SS handling of inherent design noise levels. I want to think that you forgot to mention it and if not then was on purpose.

Can you share your thougths about, it's important how you see that main audio subject. If tubes are better: good and if SS are the ones: good.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

You all have wondered pretty far off topic, but since an event in my listening room with mentioned, I feel obligated to reply:
@rauliruegas My recollection is that while connecting your phonolinepreamp in my system a poorly constructed Omega Mikro power cable was stepped on and damaged resulting in a DC surge that reached the power amps and took out 2 tubes. When replaced all was fine. The fault lies in the Omega Mikro power cable (which the manufacturer wanted to charge near full price to repair -- leading me to trash it!), not in the OTL power amp. 
While I have enjoyed a couple of solid state phono stages and tube linestages since then, I am open to considering all designs and never nod my head in agreement when you mention me as someone who "saw the light" regarding solid state superiority. I just sold my hybrid monoblocks and am replacing with a solid state power amp, but that doesn't mean I don't still appreciate virtues of all design types. I am a believer that there is "more than one way to skin a cat". Please don't use me as an example of the opposite. 

Everyone, Raul is correct that many who heard his phonolinepreamp then and the following day in @slipknot1 's (aka JoeG) system were very impressed with the sound quality, especially since most were fans of tube gear. 
IMHO, the reason none of them bought one was the obvious, we all are quite hesitant to buy gear from any new manufacturer, especially since we often change gear and depreciation is a huge factor with unproven, unloved brands. For any new brand to make it, it takes a combination of superior sound, unique features, and a few risk takers who enjoy jumping in earlier even at financial risk. Cheers,
Spencer 

Just to be clear, by tweaking Raul for his nearly crazy hatred of tubes, I do not mean to imply a similar negative bias against transistors. Perhaps I went too far in that direction, in order to get Raul's goat. (Raul, there must be an equivalent phrase in Spanish.)  I am quite confident that wonderful sounding gear can be built with either or both types of active devices. I like to think that I have an open mind in this regard.  But it is simply not true that "tubes" are inherently higher in distortion than are solid state devices, which is Raul's mantra.  On that point, I do insist.  And anyway, this is a sidebar to the debate about the FR64S, which is also a sidebar to the OP's question about comparing the FR54 to the FR64S.  Love it or hate it, the FR64S is meant to be superior to the FR54 by its makers. At least we got that much across.

I would welcome the opportunity to audition Raul's phonolinepreamp in my system(s).  I was lately under the impression that it is out of production.  Someone would have to loan me one.  It is quite possible for a low production, high end product such as that one to become a "cult classic" with enduring value and even the potential for appreciation.  People pay way over original price for such pieces as the CTC Blowtorch, the MFA Luminescence, the Vendetta phono stage, etc. (I owned two tweaked samples of the MFA Luminescence, and I much prefer my Atma-sphere MP1.)