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Others experience re: subs and Magmepan 20

I have a pair of Magnepan 20r’s. Have enjoyed them for years. In my room they go to about 30Hz, response way down at 25Hz.

I am experimenting with a pair of Janis subs. This gets the response to about 25 Hz then down a lot at at 20Hz. It adds a little something but not I am not bowled. over. I hear and feel a bit (in my chest) on some music.

I would like to hear about others have experience with adding subs to nearly full range speakers?

Did you feel you got your money’s worth for "a few silly Hz"?

Thanks
imdoc
jimf42's avatar
jimf42
48 posts
 
I have a pair of Magnepan MGIIIa s and now that I have a preamp with dedicated subwoofer ouputs with adjustable crossover points, I was thinking of adding an REL or a Magnepan DWM to the system.  I am thinking more like an 8" sub, since I want a faster response than I think the larger subs will provide (do not really need super powerful bass) and my listening room is not large.
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
4,908 posts
 

Jim, Rythmik Audio has two sealed subs featuring dual 8" woofers, the F8 and FM8. The only difference between them is the FM was designed to be used as a mid-bass woofer, it’s x/o to a lower-frequency sub being 4th order at 50Hz. Both operate up to 250Hz, and both incorporate the Rythmik Direct Servo-Feedback amplifier.

Also, co-designed by Rythmiks Brian Ding and Danny Richie of GR Research is the unique OB/Dipole Sub, available with dual 8" woofers, though dual 12’s is the more common choice. This OB/Dipole Sub is the ultimate sub for use with all planar speakers, for obvious reasons.

By the way, both Brian and Danny are adamant that because of the design of the 8" and 12" woofers (designed in house specifically for open baffle implementation, and custom manufactured by TC Sounds for Rythmik and GR exclusively), and how they are controlled by the Rythmik Servo-Feedback circuit, the 12" is just as "fast" as the 8", but capable of considerably more output. The sense of "speed" in a woofer is in how quickly it returns to "rest" after the signal has stopped, not how quickly it starts (Rythmik/GR subs have been described as "stopping on a dime"). Subwoofer frequencies are relatively "slow", but woofers, once set in motion, tend to stay in motion. That’s where the Rythmik Servo-Feedback circuit comes into play. If you’ve ever heard the Infinity IRS loudspeakers, you know what I’m talking about. I formerly owned the mini-IRS, the RS-1b (featuring six 8" servo-feedback controlled woofers per side), and the pair of Rythmik Audio/Gr Research subs I now own are considerably better. Leaner, cleaner, no boom, no bloat. It’s the only Open Baffle/Dipole Servo-Feedback Sub in the world! Seriously, if you don’t have room for a pair of Magneplanar Tympani T-IV bass panels (great as subs for Maggie MG series speakers), this is the sub to own.

jafant
10,525 posts
 
I would look no further than REL and Sunfire.
douglas_schroeder
1,824 posts
 
I am not going to spend the time reading all the posts. My impression is this; it seems the sub doesn't get you much farther down than the mains. While it may seem marginal, a sub that can do about 15-16Hz is SUBstantially, different - sorry, had to pun! - than one which can do 25Hz. BIG difference. 

I would not give up on subs without considering an alternative, as I'm sure others have suggested. 

My experience; I have the Kingsound King III ESL and love them with subs. I use the Legacy EXTREME XD Subs with them and wouldn't dream of runnning the King III for realism in listening without subs. Sure, the King III reaches similar to the 20.7, but the extra foundation is precious on genres of music. Imo. 

Disclaimer, prior to owning I reviewed both the King III and the Legacy EXTREME XD Subs for Dagogo.com 
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drew3
1 posts
 
A fun thread to read and lots of great ideas, products, technical information, and opinions.  With years of enjoyable experience with MG II's through 20's including IIIa's with Entec and 3.6 and 3.7i with Rel Stentor III's subs as well as different amp and room scenarios here are a few key points to consider in chasing the extra octave.

I respect your position on not wanting to get into the details of amplication and room dimensions, however you talk about "you think you are missing a bit of low end" on some songs.  You have to consider the reality of inefficient high resolution speakers like Magnepans and others.  Like it or not, you will hear the strengths and weaknesses of up stream equipment as well as the differences in how the music was engineered and recorded.  Sub's can easily create the feel it in your chest sensation, but as you said its not the experience you had in the symphony hall.

My point is, you have to decide on what you want - move octaves or move closer to the recording.  With Maggie's what is up stream, room acoustics and speaker placement is how you get closer to the recording.  Had lots of fun with my subwoofer experience, mostly the MG 3.6 with the Rel Stentor III, in an 18x25 room with carpeted cement floor with a few carefully placed room acoustical panels with the speakers 50" out from the back wall.  Driven by CJ Art III and Levinson ML333 there was a big, dynamic and felt it sense to the recorded music especially well engineered and recorded music.  It was different with 3.7i mostly due to the improvements in the 3.7i causing much tuning with the Rel's.  Not a negative about the 3.7i's more the realization I was playing with an unnatural configuration.  At least in my mind.

The change I made and would encourage you to think about is.  Instead of chasing the extra octave, think about upgrading to the MG 20.7's and as JPMEURER2 stated - bring ample dynamic power over a sub system investment.  I swapped out my ML333 for the Sanders Magtech mono's.  

The sound is and feels more natural, especially with well engineered and recorded music. Don't forget not all recording are created equal and seriously play with speaker placement given available real estate over more equipment in the room.  I sense many Magnepan owners do not move the speakers far enough from the back wall. 

All the best.
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