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Any comments on DAC going direct to power amplifier or to pre-ampliifer?

My local retailer HIGHLY RECOMMENDS the use of a pre-amplifier.  Bricasti believes that going direct to a power amplifier sounds better.  And, I also know that everyone had a "different opinion" about going direct or using a pre-amplifier.  

I am running my Bricast1 M1 SE DAC direct to my Hypex NCore NC400 Bridged Mono Block class D power amplifiers (no pre-amplifier) and like the sound quality very much.   

For me, the sound is more natural and clearer by going direct to a power amplifier. Of course, I think the M1 SE DAC has special “custom" circuits in the analog section to make it sound so good. I returned home and listened to my system.  It sounds terrific and I continue to enjoy and recommend the Bricasti M1 SE DAC.

Please note that we removed the R141 (circuit) from my Hypex NCore NC400 bridged mono blocks, thus lowering amplifier gain by 14 dB, requiring 14 dB higher M1 volume setting for same playback level.  Bricasti says the goal is to have the M1 CLOSE to 0db front panel attenuation.  If you reduce the volume on the M1 SE DAC, you cause more bit reduction meaning you lose sound quality.   We discussed this modification with Hypex and they approved the removal of the R141 circuit.  They suggested we be very careful removing the 4 R141 chips (for my 4 NC400 amplifiers) to avoid board damage.  

I noticed that many of the newer DAC’s (even the new Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC and many others) have volume controls meaning their DAC/Pre-amplifiers are designed to go direct to a power amplifier (as an option, of course).  

What are your experiences of going direct to a power amplifier or using a pre-amplifier?  Have you compared going direct vs. going to a pre-amplfier and noticed any sound quality differences?  Have you gotten different results from using different DAC's and amplifiers?   Your comments are appreciated.  Thanks.





hgeifman
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
4,966 posts
 
Were only talking about the OP's Bricasti and a PS Audio both of which have volume controls, as the thread is about direct in to the poweramps with a dacs that have volume controls.
I don't know how the Holo dac came into this, but it to me looks like a very good R2R  Mutibit dac and the way I like my dacs, and with "solid" output stage which should only need a passive preamp, if the poweramp is >33kohm input impedance. 

Cheers George
tomaswv
82 posts
 
I have have a buddy who has a system similar to mine. We put a preamp in his system and wow, more natural, musical, fuller sound.  Put it in my system, no discernible difference.  His: Cambridge magic streamer into a Nuforce mcp 18a analog pre to Bel Canto 300m mono blocks to def tech 8080 st towers. Mine: Cambridge 851N streamer to bel canto 500m mono blocks to Dali Mentor 6. Cabling and rooms are different, but still a puzzling difference. 

georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
4,966 posts
 
tomaswv

Probably had very much to do with his 300m’s only having an extremely low 10k input impedance. Where your 500m’s have very nice high 200k input impedance 20 x higher!!.
There is no spec on the output impedance of magic streamer and how the volume is done, (could be high if they don't spec it)
Where your 851N has very low 0.15 Ohm output impedance better than most preamps.

Cheers George
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
913 posts
 
I have have a buddy who has a system similar to mine. We put a preamp in his system and wow, more natural, musical, fuller sound. Put it in my system, no discernible difference. His: Cambridge magic streamer into a Nuforce mcp 18a analog pre to Bel Canto 300m mono blocks to def tech 8080 st towers. Mine: Cambridge 851N streamer to bel canto 500m mono blocks to Dali Mentor 6. Cabling and rooms are different, but still a puzzling difference.

From your and your friend’s experience, it can be concluded that for different dac/systems, the Cambridge, Holo, Bricasti, PS Audio, Ayre, etc included, the general principle is to go with what you hear best with your own ears from your individual systems.
electroslacker
255 posts
 
Impedance mismatch aside, a preamp seems useful for the person who is after the most most pleasing or engaging sound, whereas the straight to amp is usually the best path if the goal is to objectively reduce distortion as low as possible as the greater good (and where they get their pleasure from pursuing that goal)

Heck, a stack of Marshall tube amps is testament that the ear can welcome some types of distotion to the point of euphoria, whereas others might want the cleanest, least distorted sound of the original instrument. 

Seems to me it depends on what your goals and values are, what your ear likes, and whether you need your choices in life to be rational or subjective.

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