2. amps-preamps
  3. 129126-20344

My Audio Research experience

To all you goners out there, here is my experience with Audio Research.

Approximately four years ago I purchased an AR Reference 75 power amp.  It was on special at the time and I bought if from a dealer in Brisbane, Australia.

I used the amp for the rear channels of my home theatre system which I only use occasionally because I travel a lot for work and I mainly listen to music.

One night I switched the amp on and a white flash and burning smell came from the amplifier and it didn’t power up.  I thought it may have been a tube, and because I had no spares, I reported the problem to my Brisbane dealer and via email to Audio Research.  A copy of the reply sent from AR on the 5th March 2016 follows:

'Thank you for choosing Audio Research and the REF75. I suspect you had an internal tube arc. The internal tube short can also take out a plate or screen resistor. So just replacing the tube will not fix this problem. The resistors also need to be replaced. You can confirm this by checking the bias for this tube. If the bias reads zero, a resistor is open.  This is an easy repair that our distributor in Australia can do.

The SE update for the REF75 comes with a complete new set of tubes including a new set of KT150s.  This is the only way it is sold. If you so choose, Our Australian distributor can also install this SE upgrade for you while the amp is in for repair.'

I then proceeded to order some more tubes to see if a replacement tube would fix the problem.

I ordered the following tubes:

2 x Electro-Harmonix 6H30Pi Gold with Matched Triodes (Balanced)

4 x KT150 Power Vacuum Tube - [Matching (10+ tubes)]

4 x KT120 Power Vacuum Tubes - [Matching (10+ tubes)]

When they arrived, I tried the new tubes but they didn’t fix the problem as the amplifier failed to switch on.  I then contacted my dealer and freighted the amplifier to Brisbane for repair.  This was done in June of last year.  I included all of the above tubes in the package in case they were needed.  I also would have liked the amp to be upgraded to SE status using the tubes supplied if possible.

In September/October last year I enquired about the status of the repair and before Christmas enquired again. After again emailing AR, I was contacted by the Australian Distributor who told me that the service agent in Brisbane had been trying to get parts for the wrong amplifier and that the amplifier would be transported to Melbourne for repair.  I asked them to get me a price for the upgrade using my tubes.

In January/February of this year, I was contacted by the Australian Distributor and had to supply proof of purchase because there was a dispute over whether the amplifier was in fact under warranty when the fault occurred.  I again asked about getting the upgrade using the supplied tubes which were still with the repair agent in Brisbane.  Eventually I was told that I could have the upgrade using AR tubes only, for the heavily discounted price of $3,000 Australian.  Nothing like gouging your customers!!!!!!  Especially when I could have bought a small car for the original cost of the amplifier in Australia.

I chose to just get the original amplifier repaired under warranty which I was told needed a new main circuit board.  This week my amplifier finally arrived back home after nearly 12 months away for a repair under warranty.  The original tubes have been put in a box with ‘Faulty Old Tubes,’ written on the box.  The tubes I sent with the amplifier have not been returned, and no replacement tubes have been included.

I am amazed that the initial fault destroyed six tubes, so I have asked how the Distributor tested the tubes to determine that they were faulty.  I am now left with an amplifier that doesn’t work and 10 expensive vacuum tubes missing somewhere in Australia.  I am also left with a conundrum, if when I finally get my tubes back and use them to ensure the amplifier works, what happens if it doesn’t.  Will AR then blame me for any fault that occurs on power up because I haven’t purchased tubes from them at their heavily marked up prices????

For me I will never touch another Audio Research product for as long as I reside on this planet.  I will be telling all my audiophile friends and putting this report on every forum that will publish it.  Best of luck for the future Audio Research and may you drown in your policy mess!!!

thazeldean
fmalitz
17 posts
 
This will be my last post on this topic. As I stated above, clearthink will never admit to any positive aspects of Bob's career in terms of standing behind a product. This validates, as I stated clearly above, his own incorrect opinion. Anyone with specific questions or if you'd like to compare the components used in our product versus another brand, feel free to call me and I'll tell you the truth.

Clearthink, once again, is either misinformed or he is a liar. Both Carver and Sunfire lasted about 15 years each under Bob's ownership. Although Audio Research is to be commended for their longevity, not to mention their excellent sonic performance, 15 years is an above average lifespan for many audio companies under the same ownership. 

Aside from these facts, and aside from the people who benefited from Bob's designs, Audio research warrants their tubes for 90 days. Assuming we will not close our business in the next few years or so, probably a likely event according to clearthink, you're still ahead of the game. With a conventional tube-type amplifier, immediately after breaking in, the unit will sound its best but begin to degrade day by day. I don't know what else I can say. I'm not likely to respond further unless a posting is truthful or inquisitive. I certainly will not respond further to clearthink. He's merely William Summerwerck in sheep's clothing.


kalali's avatar
kalali
1,645 posts
 

I heard the Carver Cherry 180 monoblocks paired with some line array speakers at the NY audio show last year and at $6K a pair I thought they were the best value in the entire show. If I were in the market for a high powered - 200 wpc, tube power, I would have bought them, without a doubt. The next even closely comparable set up - VAC top of the line amps with Harbeth 40.2, was considerably more expensive. Lifetime warranty angle is completely irrelevant,

clearthink, if warranty is your highest priority, buy a Marantz and take the optional extended service  warranty.

bdp24's avatar
bdp24
4,908 posts
 
At one ARC in-store seminar I attended in the 1980’s, Bill Johnson stated that he designed and built his electronics to have a twenty year lifespan. At my then age, twenty years seemed to me like a long time, twenty years being a good chunk of it. At my current age, twenty years doesn’t seem so long! Sorry to keep bringing up Roger Modjeski, but he states he designs and builds his Music Reference amps to last one hundred years. In consideration of a technician in the far-off distant future needing to know the bias settings (and other values) in one of his amps, he silk-screens that info onto their top plate. My ARC LS-1 pre-amp is a lot older than twenty years, but then tube pre’s require a lot less in the way of maintenance than do tube power amps, especially a single-tube design like the LS-1. The SP-10 is a different story!
jetter
1,035 posts
 
There is a little irony in all of this.  You are talking about fairly expensive tube amps and their longevity.  There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of Dynaco ST70s out there that are 50 or 60 years old that have had nothing or only a couple of components replaced and are still  going strong.  
daveyf's avatar
daveyf
1,174 posts
 
This thread truly amuses me. When one gets into high end audio and starts to delve in the esoterica of tubes...and tube amps in particular, then I do believe that some of the ’issues’ with said tubes are to be expected. My ARC amp is over 30+ years old. I have had to have it serviced and have also had to replace all of the tubes. Surely, one would expect this?? OTOH, for anyone to state that a certain design can last for one hundred years is really pushing the envelope, IMO. Anything can last for a hundred years, so long as every single part is replaced or remanufactured over and over to insure that. Reminds me of the old Ford from 1918, still running like a top....why, because every darn part in it has been replaced or restored, LOL. Same with our tube amps, or any piece of gear for that matter!
ARC is in business to succeed and make a profit, no one forces anyone to buy their products...The fact that they are able to service my amp and keep it in my system after all these years gives me a good feeling. Yes, the service might be pricey, but at least the option is there!! Unlike the old Hales speakers that i used to own.
As to Carver, I think their philosophy speaks volumes for them. Whether you like their sound or not is another question, but their philosophy seems to be on the right track. Bob Carver may have made some missteps in the past, but who in business did not!! The fact that Frank Malitz professes what he does, say a lot for their company...all IMHO.
More to discover