Who listens primarily to Redbook CD?

@tommylion thanks for the phtotos I always love looking in AN gear. So my AN Dac-3 Signature predates their use of that AMD chip and uses the PCM63K chip which is a multibit chip. For that reason, and the overall AN overbuilt power supply and robust design I feel my unit sounds fantastic. Cheers!

One can’t help wondering if copying an audio cassette would also result in a copy that sounded better than the original. Or is that just too crazy?

It is possible that some people might think it does. It has to do with the given individual genetic pre-disposition of "Ear-Q" (hearing intelligence) in the individual’s neurological aspects, and how they learned to hear (how they ended up wiring themselves as they grew-over time) and how they used this feedback loop to wire up and chose a given audio system. Learning speed also plays as part of the IQ and E-Q package in as it changes the size and scope of the field of analysis, and in time, or work done over time, so the final position maybe quite far down the road and encompass much, or ...not.

Since it is connected to their unconscious aspects and flows through the place their reproductive impetus is located, it can get into an intractable and unstoppable force the size of their own life force..when it comes to protecting that given ’position’ on audio. They have to project it and have the world echo-mirror it back, part of the ego awareness loop that passes through the conscious-unconcious barrier.

Which is how you get to intractable positions which are forced upon others --as if said positions are every one else’s reality. Complex sociological aspects are also at play.

And so on.

There’s much more to say but one cannot wire a 50 page explanation for each post, so it can be better received. To err in the smaller post on the side of ease, not pressure and force.

My point is that most people in this thread are saying that Delta-sigma is a fail when it comes to representing the best that digital can do.

The math and the measurements and the science of it can take a walk... if it fails to meet what people think of as representing music. One person proclaiming strongly that it does meet such....does not change that.

What we hear is what we hear and measurement in engineering terms is not what the ear hears or how the ear works. Engineering weighting of error vs signal does not work in the same way the ear does. This is the critical break point in situations that put too much emphasis on science in electrical engineering, and fail to properly work out what the ear does and expects in signal. The ear is not a ’finished’ science. That area of endeavor, physically and neurologically.. is not complete, or as measurable as the electrical engineering.

The problem is almost equivalent to the one where the drunk looks for his keys under the light, even though he lost his keys somewhere else, in the dark. As he can’t see in the dark. Which we recognize as near pointless. One has to go into the dark, as that is where the question and the answer is.

These flame wars are as usual, the people who use their ears.... and... the people who push about science and electrical function.

And few on the electrical side of the argument realize they don't have a complete question and answer set. And they push almost blindly. They tend to weaponize the science and engineering and use it as a stick and firebrand to attack those who use their ears and aren't deeply versed in the science end of the pool. It is, in it's extreme cases... in a word, incorrect or incomplete, as positions go.

Until about a 18 months ago, CD was my preferred format. It no longer is for numerous reasons including cost (why burn to cd or buy a cd when the digital file can be played directly), longevity of the data storage on that media (data fails in far less than the purported "100 years" when the format was originally introduced) and bit/sample limitation (why listen to 16/44 when 24/192 is available).

The aforementioned said, I still love my Emotiva ERC-3. For a relatively inexpensive piece of audio gear, it certainly can provide a lot of enjoyment when playing back a redbook cd. While I would think this is a delta sigma dac and not r2r (given the posts herein about cost and availability of r2r, but I honestly don't know), it truly does produce outstanding sound and is probably among the most underrated players on the market.

Re this: teo_audio118 posts06-08-2017 12:01pmI tend to listen to redbook, for the most part, but I’m using a ladder or R2R DAC. No delta-sigma single bit DAC here.

Which makes a huge difference, IMO. When folks hear it they keep asking me how to get that incredible sound out of digital.

... I have to second that statement. R2R digital has transformed my entire experience of digital music (which began in 1986 and evolved quite a bit on past decade).

I listen to audio primarily via a relatively complex desktop system w/multiple, high-quality headphone amps & headphones being used whenever the spirit moves me (the Violectric V281 amp/pre-amp normally does preamp dues for powered speakers + subs). In next 2 weeks the speakers will be upgraded to ZenPro mod Yamaha HS7 powered monitors...because I tired of looking for audiophile-level powered speakers in the size/power I seek. I have at least 1,200-1,500 CDs, ~250 of which exist as rips on HD (.wav files) or in various complications (also .wav files). I've never heard MQA or high-rez audio. Will someday, but not a priority. Redbook files have much upside for exploration, depending on the DAC used.

Anyway, last summer I purchased my first R2R DAC--the Audio GD NOS 19. Not only is it an R2R design, but it's a native non-oversampling variant of that design. The NOS 19 took a long time to finish burning in (>400 hrs, as other users report--true), but when it did, the digital coming out sounds essentially nothing like any digital I'd heard previously. Some delta sigma designed impressed, but this is truly different: organic, natural-sounding, unforced, conveying more ambience & instrumental timbre than I'd ever heard digital do. I heard this on speakers + sub, but even more so via high quality, balanced headphones. I quickly became accustomed to this new kind of digital sound & now take it for granted.

I'm so impressed by the NOS 19 that I recently acquired on of the last DAC-19's made by Audio GD (that's the oversampling variant of the NOS 19). I just finished buring that in 400+ hrs and will soon do some critical listening via headphones. But I can already tell that it's in the same R2R "family," far more organic and natural than most DACs.

In short, with 2 amps costing less than $1K each, I've found that R2D designs completely transform how I perceive digital music.

In case you're wondering why I dabble audio--it's 100% about music. I loved music from early childhood and listen to it 12+ hrs a day, mostly streaming classic/jazz/ambient from European sources (I'm self-employed & work in home office, so I do as I please). 30 yrs ago I had very large, audiophile systems in the living room, but those days are gone.